Running no rear sway bar on track?

[Fabman]

Looks like them.

If it wasn't for the 2" lowering, you might be able to use yellows with them. Probably wouldn't have much headroom left on adjustment for the track though.


Norm

The Konis arent stiff enough?

 

[csamsh]

Nothing to do with stiffness. The housings are built to work at stock ride heights. You'll bottom them out frequently with that much lowering

 

[Fabman]

Nothing to do with stiffness. The housings are built to work at stock ride heights. You'll bottom them out frequently with that much lowering

I was under the impression that they were shorter than stock for this very reason....?

 

[Mark Aubele]

I think OTS Konis are only 1/2" shorter than stock. Ground Control's hideously hard to adjust race camber plates add an additional 1" of bump travel if you are set on Konis (or have them already). Although you might push the car off a bridge if you ever have to change camber settings.

 

[Fabman]

I ran Tour type Stock cars for decades and everything was super simple. A spring was a spring and a shock was a shock. Everything was rated and easy to make changes. These tin can cars are a royal pain in my arse to make simple changes. I just would like to be able to purchase a setup that worked right out of the box and where I could make predictable changes with. Most coil over setups dont use a real 2.5" ID coil over spring and most don't give you the rates....so how the heck do you know WTF you are doing?

 

[Fabman]

Damn are these cars expensive....

Looking at these:
http://cortexracing.com/product/xtr...ont-single-rear-adjustable-2005-2014-mustang/


and these:
http://cortexracing.com/product/xtreme-grip-coil-over-system-2005-2014-mustang-s197-track/

 

[Stephen31201]

Take it from someone who learned the hard way. Trying to band aid a setup that is not designed to work that way is a waste of $$$. The guy that had the car before me went through numerous spring sets and bars, and by the time it was done he said he should've just waited and bought a set of GC or Vorshlags setup. If I had it to do all over again I would go with big ass sway bars to get as much spring rate as I could out of stock height springs. Yes its a band aid but it will help until you can get a set of coilovers and can run correct spring rates with little to no bars. I am no suspension expert, but I can tell you what doesn't work well. Koni's with very low springs. A stock mustang on better tires will hurt your feelings at the tack all day long. Been there done that.

 

[Fabman]

this is what I'm used to...super simple.

 

[Fabman]

Take it from someone who learned the hard way. Trying to band aid a setup that is not designed to work that way is a waste of $$$. The guy that had the car before me went through numerous spring sets and bars, and by the time it was done he said he should've just waited and bought a set of GC or Vorshlags setup. If I had it to do all over again I would go with big ass sway bars to get as much spring rate as I could out of stock height springs. Yes its a band aid but it will help until you can get a set of coilovers and can run correct spring rates with little to no bars. I am no suspension expert, but I can tell you what doesn't work well. Koni's with very low springs. A stock mustang on better tires will hurt your feelings at the tack all day long. Been there done that.

I have the FRPP sway bars.

 

[Speedboosted]

If you scroll down towards the bottom of that link to the MM springs, they mention to remove the rear sway bar on a car that has a squared tire setup. Lol

I would go with Vorshlag over MM, but they both certainly know their stuff.

 

[Fabman]

Yeah I saw that about the sway bars. Kenny Brown also does this. I am already so low with the pro kit I worry about some of these others. Vorshlag has a parts site?

 

[MechE]

Can't tell if serious...

 

[csamsh]

Here. This is the easy button.

Note: easy buttons are expensive.

http://www.vorshlag.com/product_info.php?cPath=141_142_179&products_id=582

http://www.vorshlag.com/product_info.php?cPath=141_142_179&products_id=790

With real racing stuff...it's pretty easy. It's a standard size coilover spring with the rate printed right on it.

The only differences in the S197 platform from what you're used to are that the front is a strut, and the rear has a divorced shock/spring location. With a rear weight jacker under the spring, you can adjust ride height just like with a threaded shock body.

 

[Stephen31201]

And easy buttons are worth it in the end ^^ Or you spend months taking it in the other end trying to piece-mill a suspension.

 

[Fabman]

And easy buttons are worth it in the end ^^ Or you spend months taking it in the other end trying to piece-mill a suspension.

Very familiar with that strategy...this is why I was hoping to pick up a matching set of something that works. Since I'm no longer racing for points or money I had this illusion that this would be a little easier than it is. Before coil over cars we raced big spring cars and could easily get springs rated whatever we wanted in 25# increments....this whole thing about having to search for spring rates coded "Sport" or "K" or "L" or "Joe blows favorite setup" is just a slap in the face of racers everywhere. HTH am I supposed to compare if they don't put a damn number on it and rate them all with the same yardstick?

Rant over. I am going to go look at the Vorshlag stuff now.

Thank you all for your input, and please feel free to add your comments at any time....

 

[csamsh]

Most of all the street stuff is progressive and platform specific, so that's probably the reason behind not just listing off numbers.

 

[Stephen31201]

Very familiar with that strategy...this is why I was hoping to pick up a matching set of something that works. Since I'm no longer racing for points or money I had this illusion that this would be a little easier than it is. Before coil over cars we raced big spring cars and could easily get springs rated whatever we wanted in 25# increments....this whole thing about having to search for spring rates coded "Sport" or "K" or "L" or "Joe blows favorite setup" is just a slap in the face of racers everywhere. HTH am I supposed to compare if they don't put a damn number on it and rate them all with the same yardstick?

Rant over. I am going to go look at the Vorshlag stuff now.

Thank you all for your input, and please feel free to add your comments at any time....

I agree when it came to finding springs for the car before coilovers. Now its way easier. I am king of trying to make something work while saving $$. But when I bit the small bullet (GC's) the difference was HUGE. I cant imagine how good the high dollar stuff is. But I can honestly say that if I only ran on the street I would never spend the $$ for coilovers. But on the road course it was mandatory. Going through corners and the car leaning so hard that my side view mirrors were dragging the ground, I knew it was time. But seeing that $$ come out of the account does hurt your feelings quite a bit! Not gonna lie.

 

[Fabman]

I agree when it came to finding springs for the car before coilovers. Now its way easier. I am king of trying to make something work while saving $$. But when I bit the small bullet (GC's) the difference was HUGE. I cant imagine how good the high dollar stuff is. But I can honestly say that if I only ran on the street I would never spend the $$ for coilovers. But on the road course it was mandatory. Going through corners and the car leaning so hard that my side view mirrors were dragging the ground, I knew it was time. But seeing that $$ come out of the account does hurt your feelings quite a bit! Not gonna lie.

It would have been a lot easier to swallow if I hadn't just put a brand new set of Konis and Eibach Pro kit under there because that was "supposed" to be a good setup....
This is what I get for trusting.

I'd really like to build a SLA front clip for this thing but then I might as well do a whole tube chassis at that point and it's more work than I'm wanting to do here in my old age.
This was supposed to be a low buck/low maintenance recreational thing...boy, am I stupid.

 

[Mark Aubele]

You can buy a coilover kit for the Konis from Ground Control. Everyone hates them on here, but if you run them at a reasonable height in the front with a decent spring they work well. Ran them all year lowered about 1.25" with a 550/300 setup. The 550s are a bit too much spring for them, would go with a 500 spring max, 450 would probably be better. I also went down to a 250 out back. Rears have plenty of rebound damping front is lacking.

You don't have to drop 4k to make the car work. I obviously would prefer better dampers and eventually will run them, but guys all over run Konis and this is the only place where I seem to see outright hatred. Hell the Griggs setup are just Koni DAs, and so are the Cortexs. Although they may have different valving and shorter housings, they are just yellows.

 

[Norm Peterson]

The Konis arent stiff enough?

Marginal, I think, particularly the struts.

At +1.5 turns from full soft they seem to work quite well with OE springs (around 130 lb/in). That's where I set them for my track time (yes, it's still on OE springs), and that's already using 2/3 of the adjustment range. I use about +3/4 turn on the street.

At two full turns, they might be able to comparably cope with with springs in the 250 range - if there isn't too much lowering - but now you're down to having only about 1/4 turn of adjustment left (250 lb/in is about where the BMR 'handling' springs are, with 1.5" of lowering which is more than I'd personally want to force the Konis to be run at). At another eighth of a turn, you'd be able to run the H&R race springs (300 or so), but now you're down to having only another 1/8 left, and the 1.5" lowering issue is still there. Full firm, maybe 400-425.

kcbrown was able to get some shock plots off his own set, and I was looking in the 1 ips to 2 ips region. I don't think the comparisons would change much at 3 ips.


Norm