solid lifter setup

[silverstang07]

I know a few guys have done this I just can't find any information on it. I'm interested in a solid lifter setup over the factory lash adjusters. Is it worth it? What are the ins and outs of switching to solid lift? I'm not worried about more maintenance or anything, the car doesn't get used very much. Just looking for a few more ponies and a little more rpm with the new motor.

I have found these, not sure of the quality.

http://www.phantasmusa.com/fomu1mo43.html

 

[TurboX]

Interesting alternative to the Jesel pieces. I was told for the coin of the Jesel rockers and lifters, it really wasnt worth the cost.

 

[silverstang07]

Unless I hit the lottery there will be no jesel stuff in this car. I know they charge more because they don't sell as many 3v parts as say a SBC, but there is no sense in charging that much for a rocker. Nice stuff though. I am basically wondering if there is a HP and rpm advantage to going solid lift on the modular cars like the pushrod stuff. Who was the guy with the bad ass n/a 5.4? I remember an article saying he had a custom solid setup.

 

[psfracer]

Here it is:

http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26603

 

[silverstang07]

Seams like everything on his car was kept hush hush. Anyone know anything about the valvetrain setup ? What happened to the car?

 

[Department Of Boost]

Here it is:

http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26603

How did he get it to spin to 8000rpm? I thought the stock ECU was only good for 7800?

 

[Department Of Boost]

I know a few guys have done this I just can't find any information on it. I'm interested in a solid lifter setup over the factory lash adjusters. Is it worth it? What are the ins and outs of switching to solid lift? I'm not worried about more maintenance or anything, the car doesn't get used very much. Just looking for a few more ponies and a little more rpm with the new motor.

I have found these, not sure of the quality.

http://www.phantasmusa.com/fomu1mo43.html

I made a couple of solid/adjustable lifters to do cam timing. They worked great, but they were a PITA to adjust. It would take a week to adjust a whole set of valves correctly!

I don’t see a need for solid lifters in the 3v. You go with solid lifters when the valve spring pressure gets so high is collapses the hydraulic lifters. The 3v doesn’t run valve springs that heavy even with the biggest over the counter cams. I’m sure custom cams could be ground that require solid lifters, but unless you are going with some crazy out of the park NA build you would never need cams that big.

My $.02

 

[silverstang07]

I'm just curious if anyone has done it with any success, how much of a pita it would be, etc. I know in a pushrod setup it is worth quite a few ponies.

I'm not building a "max" effort car but it isn't going to be a turd either.

 

[Department Of Boost]

I'm just curious if anyone has done it with any success, how much of a pita it would be, etc. I know in a pushrod setup it is worth quite a few ponies.

I'm not building a "max" effort car but it isn't going to be a turd either.

The reason solid lifters on a “small block” are worth HP is that they give you full lift when using big daddy valve springs. If you run heavy valve springs that can collapse a hydraulic lifter, on a hydraulic lifter you won’t get full lift/duration.

Unless you ran some HUGE crazy custom cams solid lifters would be worth exactly zero HP.

I’ve had small blocks with solid lifters and I spend years doing valve clearances on Ducati race motors with desmodromic valve actuation (no valve springs).

Linky:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmodromic_valve

Most people consider the “desmo” system, especially on a Ducati motor a nightmare. Solid lifters on a 3v would be worse I think. There is just no good way to get a feeler gauge in there or a tool(s). At a minimum it would require some custom tools if you wanted to get it right and done faster than never.

With over the counter cams that don't need solid lifters you can make 1000+hp out of a 3v with a big enough blower/turbo(s). How much you looking for?

 

[silverstang07]

How much power? Hell just one or two more than what it makes when I'm done with it. I've seen some pretty good gains on the SBC stuff I mess with going to a solid setup. It can be a pita keeping on top of it though.

I mostly grudge race this car against other street cars. It will be on a healthy dose of nitrous, 200+ shot on a progressive. I'll end up spending more money (actually already have) on nitrous than if I would have just bought a blower but for some reason I can't get away from the spray. Sounds like I'm most likely going to stick with factory valvetrain minus the cams/springs.

 

[TurboX]

The reason solid lifters on a “small block” are worth HP is that they give you full lift when using big daddy valve springs. If you run heavy valve springs that can collapse a hydraulic lifter, on a hydraulic lifter you won’t get full lift/duration.

Unless you ran some HUGE crazy custom cams solid lifters would be worth exactly zero HP.

I’ve had small blocks with solid lifters and I spend years doing valve clearances on Ducati race motors with desmodromic valve actuation (no valve springs).

Linky:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmodromic_valve

Most people consider the “desmo” system, especially on a Ducati motor a nightmare. Solid lifters on a 3v would be worse I think. There is just no good way to get a feeler gauge in there or a tool(s). At a minimum it would require some custom tools if you wanted to get it right and done faster than never.

With over the counter cams that don't need solid lifters you can make 1000+hp out of a 3v with a big enough blower/turbo(s). How much you looking for?

Don't the hydraulic lifters bleed down on higher rpms ? I agree they are not very practical from 99.99% of the 3Vs. A guy going for every HP possible like a Pro Stock car could benefit but for most, Why ?

How much power? Hell just one or two more than what it makes when I'm done with it. I've seen some pretty good gains on the SBC stuff I mess with going to a solid setup. It can be a pita keeping on top of it though.

I mostly grudge race this car against other street cars. It will be on a healthy dose of nitrous, 200+ shot on a progressive. I'll end up spending more money (actually already have) on nitrous than if I would have just bought a blower but for some reason I can't get away from the spray. Sounds like I'm most likely going to stick with factory valvetrain minus the cams/springs.

Thats the same thought I followed after talking to many different companies.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Don't the hydraulic lifters bleed down on higher rpms ?

Only if there are crazy siff valve springs in play. And I have not seen valve springs that stiff for a 3v.

The Comp 127650's, which are some pretty big cams for the 3v use a 258lb/in rate spring. They don't need a lot of spring because the valve/retainer/etc are not nearly as heavy as a small block valve is.

A similarly aggressive solid cam for a 351W needs a spring that is about 400lb/in+ in rate.

A 258lb/in spring will not “crush” a 3v hydraulic lifter (it wouldn't crush a "regular" hydraulic lifter either). There isn’t enough spring pressure for one and the 3v’s run some pretty high oil pressure for the VVT which keeps the lifters pumped up.

The only reason to run solid lifters in any motor is if you have to run so much spring pressure to keep the valve train under control that they crush hydraulic lifters.

If a hydraulic lifter is not getting “crushed” you will not see a gain in power going with a solid one.

 

[tjm73]

Unless I hit the lottery there will be no jesel stuff in this car.

I think Jesel 3V parts are priced 3x higher than they should be. But I think they have their benefits.

http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/tech/mmfp_0707_ford_modular_engines/viewall.html

 

[GB10]

PM Modmont on yellowbullet. He runs solids and spins to 10k on a 3v iirc.

 

[gil_t2]

Seams like everything on his car was kept hush hush. Anyone know anything about the valvetrain setup ? What happened to the car?

I own the car now. Bought it with a bad trans and needing some rear axle and suspension work. I have made some improvements and hope to get it on the track this fall.

 

[silverstang07]

PM Modmont on yellowbullet. He runs solids and spins to 10k on a 3v iirc.

Will do. I know which car you are talking about, never thought of it though.

 

[silverstang07]

I own the car now. Bought it with a bad trans and needing some rear axle and suspension work. I have made some improvements and hope to get it on the track this fall.

Do you know anything about the solid setup?

 

[gil_t2]

http://www.biglen.com/BLE/blehome2.htm The lifters came from BLE, they had to be modified ( the adjuster nuts ) they are a PIA to adjust.

 

[na svt]

PM Modmont on yellowbullet. He runs solids and spins to 10k on a 3v iirc.

There are guys spinning stock lash adjusters to 9k without any problems. As long the correct oil is being used and the preload is setup correctly the stock pieces will work great in most, if not all applications.

Mos motor springs pressures don't get high enough to require solids. Hell, I know someone running .625 lift on a 5.4 based, 4v and the spring pressures are 130 seat and 300 open and the stock stuff is holding up well and making an buttload of power.

 

[GB10]

There are guys spinning stock lash adjusters to 9k without any problems. As long the correct oil is being used and the preload is setup correctly the stock pieces will work great in most, if not all applications.

Mos motor springs pressures don't get high enough to require solids. Hell, I know someone running .625 lift on a 5.4 based, 4v and the spring pressures are 130 seat and 300 open and the stock stuff is holding up well and making an buttload of power.

I definitely agree with what you are saying. I run stock stuff and some good Pac springs with custom cams and I have no worries about spinning mine to 8k if I need to.