Soon to be boosted (VMP)

[5tangiac.0]

If all goes as planned I will be picking up a VMP stage 3 kit for the coyote next week. I am planning on adding an ati damper, tss opgs and crank gears as well. Also plan to get the car tuned at Tss. The car probably will see minimal track time. It's not a daily driver either. I am just looking for some more power and want it to be reliable and safe. Car is at 40k right now. Are the gears overkill? Should I just stick with the damper? Any experience is appreciated. By the way it's a 6r80.


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[skwerl]

My research shows the stock Coyote with the VMP2300 is good for 600+hp and can be very reliable at that level. I wouldn't necessarily do oil pump gears but I can understand why you would. If it makes you more confident in the car then by all means do it.

 

[5tangiac.0]

Well part of the deal I am getting comes with a timing cover that is already ground down. So to use that I will have to remove mine. Might as well do them at that point no?


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[JLear]

Do the oil pump gears the same time as the install, it's not that much extra work.

 

[travelers]

Yes do the gears while your in there. That's what I did when I installed my Whipple and I also added the ATI.

 

[5tangiac.0]

Thanks guys. I'll probably be ordering the package from beefcake with the damper and gears.


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[redfirepearlgt]

cant go wrong with VMP!

 

[santi_bh88]

My research shows the stock Coyote with the VMP2300 is good for 600+hp and can be very reliable at that level. I wouldn't necessarily do oil pump gears but I can understand why you would. If it makes you more confident in the car then by all means do it.

Thats one thing why your engine coulnt handle the power. In a 20k build with the stock oil pump...

 

[skwerl]

It handled the power fine until somebody decided to go hotlapping it, missing gears and bouncing off the rev limiter with the IAT's over 170 degrees.

 

[5tangiac.0]

With an auto I doubt I will be bouncing the rev limiter ever. But I would like the extra reassurance.


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[skaarlaj]

Are you going to be using the stock torque converter? Btw, I have a VMP on my mind for this winter too, and I'll be doing the same gears / damper you mentioned above even if I decide on a different blower between now and then. Since I'll surely be changing my converter, I may just pull my motor instead of the trans and do the oil pump gears, and converter while I have access to both.

 

[redfirepearlgt]

With an auto I doubt I will be bouncing the rev limiter ever. But I would like the extra reassurance.


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If you datalog and take the time to get it right you won't. Just take the time to datalog and get your shift points all right. I'm shifting at only 7200-7300 max with the rev limiter set at 7700. Took some time and some touch up to get everything right, but now I have a tune that defaults where I want the shift at so if I decide to raise it a bit I have some room to go.

 

[santi_bh88]

It handled the power fine until somebody decided to go hotlapping it, missing gears and bouncing off the rev limiter with the IAT's over 170 degrees.

Missing gears?? You want to see the vídeo?? The iats was not high at all, when i was tuning it the Engine blow up oil cap while driving normally. But Lito didnt want to Tell you that...still cant belive you used the stock oil pump in a built engine. This time we are building the Engine in the rigth way. Using the brain and not the ass.

 

[eighty6gt]

this is a coyote thread, they are barely breathing hard at 600 rw, meanwhile the boat anchor 3v is maxxed right out.

 

[46addict]

Nah. 600whp is far from maxing out a 3v. You will max out 93 octane before the engine becomes a limiting factor. Also if you're blowing oil caps it might be a good idea to get a breather cap and a good PCV catch can.

 

[BruceH]

Missing gears?? You want to see the vídeo?? The iats was not high at all, when i was tuning it the Engine blow up oil cap while driving normally. But Lito didnt want to Tell you that...still cant belive you used the stock oil pump in a built engine. This time we are building the Engine in the rigth way. Using the brain and not the ass.

I've always used stock pump gears too. But I also use stock clearances and the recommended oil viscosity for those clearances along with a tensioner that has the stop tab removed. I also have my rotating assembly properly balanced and use a quality balancer along with a balanced flywheel/clutch/pp and main bearings with stock material. IMO anything that can cause bad harmonics, vibration, binding of the gears, or excess stress on the gears can lead to oil pump gear failure.

At any rate engine failure is something we all want to avoid. We all work very hard for our money and want to take whatever precautions are felt to be necessary.

 

[eighty6gt]

With the stop tab removed doesn't the tensioner just spin around and unwind?

 

[santi_bh88]

I've always used stock pump gears too. But I also use stock clearances and the recommended oil viscosity for those clearances along with a tensioner that has the stop tab removed. I also have my rotating assembly properly balanced and use a quality balancer along with a balanced flywheel/clutch/pp and main bearings with stock material. IMO anything that can cause bad harmonics, vibration, binding of the gears, or excess stress on the gears can lead to oil pump gear failure.

At any rate engine failure is something we all want to avoid. We all work very hard for our money and want to take whatever precautions are felt to be necessary.

My bad was buying something used from a not great seller. I wont do it again

 

[redfirepearlgt]

If all goes as planned I will be picking up a VMP stage 3 kit for the coyote next week. I am planning on adding an ati damper, tss opgs and crank gears as well. Also plan to get the car tuned at Tss. The car probably will see minimal track time. It's not a daily driver either. I am just looking for some more power and want it to be reliable and safe. Car is at 40k right now. Are the gears overkill? Should I just stick with the damper? Any experience is appreciated. By the way it's a 6r80.


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I would urge you to call VMP performance and speak with Alex who is one of their tuners. He has a very high mile 2012 that is all stock bottom end. If there is a guy who can answer questions on longevity and durability of this engine in stock config with tons of miles on it he would be the one I know of personally who could answer all of your questions. They are good people there. Just ask for Alex. Your getting more than a product from these guys. They support what they sell.

 

[BruceH]

With the stop tab removed doesn't the tensioner just spin around and unwind?

The tensioner still has physical limits even without the stop tab. The spring is captured in the tensioner housing, it can't "unwind".

I first learned of removing the stop tab from Whipple in 2009. It's in their install directions. It stops the tensioner from suddenly stopping due to the extra loads created by having a belt driven supercharger. Removing this shock potential also helps insure the oil pump gears won't bind and break.

IMO the oil pump gears get blamed for engine failure anytime they break, even when they broke as a result of the catastrophic failure.

With that said $300 for better oil pump gears is cheap insurance. Especially if you aren't sure about the rotating assembly balance, quality of the harmonic balancer, or the clutch/flywheel balance. I have those things taken care of locally by someone I trust, I've heard too many stories of balanced rotating assemblies and other parts sold as balanced not being balanced when checked by a balance shop.