Speed Ventures @ Auto Club Speedway 8-9-2015

claudermilk

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My fourth track day and new lessons learned.

This time out, the new parts are the Watson 4-point bar and 6-point harnesses. That was a worthwhile outlay. No more leaning out of the seat or bracing myself in the car. I actually had to remind myself to not brace my knee against the console a few times. I definitely feel much less fatigued and sore after the event compared to last time.

I had a few things I was trying to improve.

1) Use the tires. I was pushing it harder & hearing the tires. I also spent probably too much time hanging the tail out. While that was fun & a *little* bit is probably good, I expect I had it sliding too much. I'll blame needing additional driver mod & a hot, greasy track.

2) Braking. I worked on that a bit, but again not enough. I pushed it far enough in a couple of turns to worry about running out of room. I think I still need to work on using the brakes harder. The current fluid is probably all used up and well-cooked, so a flush is in order before the next event.

3) Lines. Particularly into turn 9. This was one of my main items I was thinking about and I was actively changing my line. I tried to straighten out the entry into 9 instead of just tracing the curving outer edge of the track. It seemed to help and I felt I was getting through the turn (at least hitting the apex) better overall. More work here needed.

4) Use the track. I also spent time thinking about trying to get up to/on the curbs to use more of the track. For the most part, I think I accomplished that, I just need to be more consistent. I grabbed a bunch too much on lap on turn 8, getting into an almost-off into turn 9. That was a pucker moment with almost going 2 off and little runoff. I was able to get back on pavement & gather the rear end up, and make a very late, slow apex.

There's more to work on, but that was enough to think about for the day.

Entertainment/frustrations included following the McLaren out in session 1, then getting stuck behind him as he tried to learn how to drive it. Very slow, early braking, very weird lines. I finally just pitted to get away from him and the train of GT-Rs stuck behind him. Later I ran up behind a Pantera that was surprisingly slow; at least the driver was aware enough to point me by quickly. Then the Cadillac CTS-V wagon. That was kind of a fun back & forth. The car is at least as quick as the S197, but the weight out back didn't help it and probably it needed some more driver mod. He wagged his tail a wile lot trying to keep up or stay ahead of me. I heard later that he spun it after I got clear of him. The day ended with a really good few laps with a Cayman; we chatted after the session & both had fun. He was fairly new, but definitely not a noob and was pushing to keep up with me.

The next mods to the car stemming from this outing will be brake cooling (already started gathering parts), and engine cooling. I was definitely getting a little concerned my pedal was going to get long soon, so backed off a bit. I also bailed on the last session early as the car got heat-soaked and I was watching the temp needle head to the right down the big straights; even a slower lap to cool didn't help much--the cooling would catch up, but put it under stress again & it would lose ground. Time to put the car away before I hurt it.

I'll post videos once I've processed them. For now, here's some stills from CaliPhotography.

i-tmNgd5k-M.jpg

Waiting to go out & play with the Caddy.

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Grabbing lots of curb

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Not the fast way around, but it sure is fun! The photographer actually caught me shifting hand positions in the second shot there.
 

CobraRed

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Awesome!

That's pretty funny about the McLaren.

What type of cooling mods you picturing? Radiator? Oil cooler?

Reasons like this (cooling ducts, oil cooler) have been why I've kept the stang away from ACS thus far, or at least that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.
 
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claudermilk

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Yes and Yes.

I'm looking at something like the Misimoto 3-core. A simple, larger capacity, higher-efficiency radiator to swap in. It was the 4th session of the day I ran into the heat issues, and only after about 5-6 hard laps. It's also the first time the needle has moved since I've owned the car. I expected to see this eventually and was keeping 1/2 an eye on it, so I caught it right away.

I expect the oil was having similar heat issues, so am looking at a Setrab-style cooler with a sandwich plate under the oil filter & putting a thermostat in there.

Yeah, I lined up behind the McLaren & thought "this will be cool for as long as I can keep up." After a lap I was looking for the point by so I could go on my way & it turned into "when is this clown going to admit he's in WAY over his head & let us all by?" He got moved the the beginner's group for the rest of the day from what I understand (where he belonged).
 

CobraRed

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Just one opinion among many: Try the large efficient oil cooler first and see how it goes. Bringing oil temps down from 260-80 to just 240 would have a decent effect on engine temps.

My last track mustang ate up Moshimoto radiators like it did tires. They would just eventually always leak. I think Vorshlag ran one without problems, tho.

I plan to run a 14x6" 55.9k BTU Earls performance cooler in the lower opening of the CS/Boss facia.
 
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frank s

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Sounds like a nice day at the track.

To judge whether a new line is an improvement (or not) I used to check RPM at a just-post-exit physical feature. There was a fence outside the exit of Turn Six, Riverside, that was convenient. Everything I tried resulted in 4800 RPM just as the end vanished from my peripheral view, until... my foot slipped off the brake a bit earlier than I intended, and I slid fighting for control until the apex was in view, gave it full throttle, and picked up 300 RPM at the mark. Worth at least a few tenths on a 2:35 lap. (Now that I'm thinking about it, Turn 6 had two apexes, and it turned out the "book" second apex was not the inner edge of the track, but three or four feet toward the middle. Sometimes the Book is off a degree or two. That's Jim Hall in his Lotus hybrid at the USGP, 1960, placed just about right, from what I can see. I'm the squatting turn-marshal figure just above Hall's engine cover.)

orig.jpg


WRT the cooling: consider that both the oil cooler and radiator will add weight to the front of the vehicle. It might be worthwhile to check the weight of components and fluids for both choices before making a commitment.
 

claudermilk

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Oh, thanks Frank. Tease me with pics of RIR & stories of running there. I remember going as a kid to watch the races there (we always were out at the turn 6 stands). I wish it were still around & I could run it. That is a good tip on checking the effectiveness. I think my attempts at changing things up for turn 9 helped. I felt I was able to hit the apex better--less trying to force the car down to the curbing--and it seemed I had a higher terminal velocity at the end of the following straight; I was able to get back on the gas through the apex and was having to adjust my braking point to make the turn at 12 (10 & 11 are a slight chicane right after 9--basically straight-lined at WOT).

Red, good tip on the radiator. They have lots of good reviews & Terry seemed happy with the one in Big Red. My plans have been do the oil cooler first since I currently have nothing there right now; I also plan to use the lower opening for it. There was a guy with an 11 or 12 there this weekend who had done cooling mods & had a big oil cooler in front of the top of his radiator; he was having worse heating issues than me. Also running into reduced power (maybe limp mode?).
 

claudermilk

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One thing I noticed taking the car back to DD mode was the track pads. Here's a picture of the fronts, the rears look the same.
i-GvPwj4v-M.jpg


I'm not sure if that cracking is going to be an issue or not. Thoughts? The rotors look ok. Some temperature color change, but no cracking or even checking.
 

CobraRed

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Those are heat cracks. Nothing to worry about. I usually just keep an eye on them for wear reasons more than a real concern.

Cracks around holes (on other cars' pad designs) and large cracks around thin areas are the only thing worth being worried about.
 

2008 V6

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Sound like you had a blast -

I installed a Mishsimoto Radiator the first week after I purchased our car in 2012 - Best bang for the Buck in the cooling department. Bolt in unit. It developed a small leak coming from a weld after a few hard test days with my wife driving / sight seeing (Though rarely explored territory off track). I used Bars leak to repair it. We finished the day and drove home. I flushed the system when we got home. I didn’t have a problem again.

Do NOT GET a Boss 302 style radiator with Oil cooling lines routed though the radiator.

I would suggest a sandwich adaptor and a remote Mocal thermostat (LOCATED Out of engine compartment -10 minimum hose size.)
The cooler needs to have it’s own source of air that is forced though it so the rest of the grill openings will force feed the radiator. Air will find the path of least resistance so proper funneling is mandatory for everything.
If you put your own kit together, it will cost you around $500 - $600 max. depending upon the fittings & line used. It will work better than over the counter kits.
Cheap source for parts –
http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/category/Mocal_Remote_Oil_Thermostat

I’ve got some pics that should help. I don’t want to clutter up your thread. I’ll post if your interested.
 

2008 V6

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There was a fence outside the exit of Turn Six, Riverside, that was convenient.

I liked Riverside - My first major off was at 7B - Snapped a heim-joint off my front swaybar link - tied into my strut - in my Lotus Cortina D production. I was 19. Thankfully I didn't have to wash my suit afterwards. I miss that track but better tracks are still around. I just wish my reflexes were as quick now as they were then.
 

frank s

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I'm well-acquainted with the reflex deficit. I got out of the '13 GT coupe as insurance against succumbing to temptation and finding myself on track without a paddle.

I've been a Riverside freak since it began, although I didn't meet it in person until 1960. Plenty of RIR material on my Web site, including a primitive in-car lap shown as frames from 8mm.
 

2008 V6

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I'm well-acquainted with the reflex deficit. I got out of the '13 GT coupe as insurance against succumbing to temptation and finding myself on track without a paddle.

I've been a Riverside freak since it began, although I didn't meet it in person until 1960. Plenty of RIR material on my Web site, including a primitive in-car lap shown as frames from 8mm.

Great links Thanks -

Sorry for the tread jack -
 

claudermilk

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Sound like you had a blast -

I installed a Mishsimoto Radiator the first week after I purchased our car in 2012 - Best bang for the Buck in the cooling department. Bolt in unit. It developed a small leak coming from a weld after a few hard test days with my wife driving / sight seeing (Though rarely explored territory off track). I used Bars leak to repair it. We finished the day and drove home. I flushed the system when we got home. I didn’t have a problem again.

Do NOT GET a Boss 302 style radiator with Oil cooling lines routed though the radiator.

I would suggest a sandwich adaptor and a remote Mocal thermostat (LOCATED Out of engine compartment -10 minimum hose size.)
The cooler needs to have it’s own source of air that is forced though it so the rest of the grill openings will force feed the radiator. Air will find the path of least resistance so proper funneling is mandatory for everything.
If you put your own kit together, it will cost you around $500 - $600 max. depending upon the fittings & line used. It will work better than over the counter kits.
Cheap source for parts –
http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/category/Mocal_Remote_Oil_Thermostat

I’ve got some pics that should help. I don’t want to clutter up your thread. I’ll post if your interested.

Yes, it's always fun and I learn something new each time.

I long ago removed the Ford Boss 302 oil cooler from my wishlist. The point is to cool things down, not heat up the engine coolant faster. I have been looking at the CoolTech kit (at ~$1500), which I know is pricey. I'd be happy to see a list of parts that would accomplish the same result at a lower cost. But, they do have the brackets and AN hoses all setup & figured out. Cost of convenience (which may be worth it for me with limited wrenching time).

Oh, and thanks, Red. I suspected as much but thought I'd throw the question out here to be certain.
 
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CobraRed

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Yes, it's always fun and I learn something new each time.

I long ago removed the Ford Boss 302 oil cooler from my wishlist. The point is to cool things down, not heat up the engine coolant faster. I have been looking at the CoolTech kit (at ~$1500), which I know is pricey. I'd be happy to see a list of parts that would accomplish the same result at a lower cost. But, they do have the brackets and AN hoses all setup & figured out. Cost of convenience (which may be worth it for me with limited wrenching time).

Oh, and thanks, Red. I suspected as much but thought I'd throw the question out here to be certain.

And that $1500 one goes right in front of the upper rad.

I'm already doing a group buy on some Earl's coolers and fittings because I'm putting 3 together for friends. My company makes stainless braided line and I'm working on getting Redhorse AN fittings at warehouse cost through work.

If you want to drive over to Whittier, we can put it together and fab some brackets here.

Pretty much everything will be made in USA with Mocal sandwich and thermostat

About $450-460 for a 14 x 6" 55,860BTU set-up that fits in the CS lower facia, or $530-540 for the 73,500 BTU 14 x 7.75" set-up that will fit down there but may be larger than the opening.

Or provide your own cooler and subtract the cost of the earl's coolers.
 
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2008 V6

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And that $1500 one goes right in front of the upper rad.

I'm already doing a group buy on some Earl's coolers and fittings because I'm putting 3 together for friends. My company makes stainless braided line and I'm working our getting Redhorse AN fittings are warehouse cost through work.

If you want to drive over to Whittier, we can put it together and fab some brackets here.

Pretty much everything will be made in USA with Mocal sandwich and thermostat

About $450-460 for a 14 x 6" 55,860BTU set-up that fits in the CS lower facia, or $530-540 for the 73,500 BTU 14 x 7.75" set-up that will fit down there but may be larger than the opening.

Or provide your own cooler and subtract the cost of the earl's coolers.

Very reasonable pricing for a complete unit installed. My cost was below that but I had a day and a half labor including fabbing my front & rear tow assemblies.
 
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CobraRed

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Very reasonable pricing for a complete unit installed. My cost was below that but I had a day and a half labor including fabbing my front & rear tow assemblies.

Haha, just to be clear the price is for the materials, but since he's local I'm down to help him throw it together.

Have no idea how you pieced a similar kit together for less without using a lot of parts from China - i've been looking at the whole thing for awhile and am getting some of the parts at cost.

What's the secret?
 

2008 V6

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IMG_3456.JPG

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Haha, just to be clear the price is for the materials, but since he's local I'm down to help him throw it together.

Have no idea how you pieced a similar kit together for less without using a lot of parts from China - i've been looking at the whole thing for awhile and am getting some of the parts at cost.

What's the secret?

Line assemblies were donated by Earls in Gardena - Would have been almost as much as the cooler and thermostat. Kevlar / light weight lines. Mocal remote thermostat & cooler purchased online & on sale. No sales tax & free shipping. All other material was scrap laying around.
I had a problem using my tape measure so my thermostat ended up sticking though the grill. Looks stock accept for thermostat when the license plate is installed. License plate blocks the air to the cooler for street driving. V6 - Oil filter on the other side of the car. Poor welding, I need practice - All done in place on the lift
 
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CobraRed

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Oh, well that makes more sense. I like the set up!
 

2008 V6

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Thanks - Worked well, didn't even have to duct the cooler. The end portions of the lower grill were modified and used for brake ducting.
 
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claudermilk

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That is a nice setup. I like the layout better than CoolTech. I think the guy at ACS this weekend having trouble with heat & power was running a CoolTech setup; I took a look & saw the big oil cooler right in that spot & thought it wasn't the best place.

I'd love to jump on that buy, but no funds or time at the moment. Taking the family on vacation next week, so already in a little trouble for the track day sucking funds. I will definitively keep this all in mind.

Whittier? LOL, I'm sitting literally 2 blocks outside the city right now in SFS.
 

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