Track Seat Options

[latch5]

1st - I'm new to the forum. It appears to be a great resource and hope I can be a helpful contibutor.
Now for my dilema - I found myself sliding around way too much with stock seats (with airbag) last year. I will be running brake ducting and Nitto NT01 this year and was about to invest in BMR A-arms and a FAY2 Watts setup. I should get better in the corners but it will be harder to stay in my seat. Looked at the option of putting in a racing seat but was told that diconnecting the seat airbag could deactivate the entire bag system. Local upolstery shop said they can add the bolstering that I need to my seats (keeping the air bags) for $1200 (for both front seats). That eats up the budget for the A-arms and Watts linkage. Has anyone found a better/cheaper way to stay in their seats?

 

[SoundGuyDave]

If you haven't tried one, get a "CG Lock" for your factory belt, it really does help, since you can really cinch down the belt.

If you've tried that already, and it isn't enough, there is really only one real option:

Doing the install does trigger airbag codes, but to the best of my knowledge, does not deactivate the entire system. All disclaimers apply, of course.

If your car is primarily a daily-driver, then you may want to just swap the seats out when you go to the track. It takes about 10 minutes or so to do, with just a ratchet and a couple of sockets. IF you're a little more track-oriented, then the racing seats will give you all the support you could ask for. The aluminum fabricated seats are available in 1/2" or 1" increment widths, just measure your hip width when seated, and get the right size seat, and you'll be sitting pretty. Before the seats and harnesses, I had bruises on both legs, and tired pec muscles from hanging on for dear life. After the seats, I can comfortably drive with my fingertips. The difference is really that huge.

 

[latch5]

Tks - I do have the CG Lock and your right it helps. Your description of tracking in stock seats is perfect (left knee bruise lasted months). Your suggestion makes sense. I already change rotors, pads, fluid and tires before tracking what's another few minutes changing a seat?

 

[DusterRT]

See these links:

http://www.modularfords.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97067&highlight=airbag+seat

http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2238

And of course, you could just do it the way the factory race cars are done...electrical tape over the dash light.

 

[irishpwr46]

arent these pretty decent?

http://store.roushperformance.com/detail.aspx?ID=1088

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Um, no. Leather (not suede) is just too slick of a surface, your butt will be sliding all over the place. Also, those bolsters are nowhere near high enough. The bolsters on my Ultrashield seats come almost to the tops of my legs, halfway out my ribcage, and wrap my shoulders. The Roush seats, which really look nice, btw, simply won't give you the sort of "planted" feeling you get with race seats. The Roush seats would make a nice interior upgrade from an aesthetic perspective, but are worth LESS than their weight in gold from a performance standpoint. I did my seats, harnesses AND rollbar for less than that.

 

[Kaldar142]

Sparco EVO 2 FTW... love these seats, and i daily drive in them aswell

ultra comfy and very supportive, i don't move at all side to side.

 

[Philostang]

Wow! DusterRT, thanks man! I'm getting ready to put Kirkey seats in the car, and that Word doc in the first link is really helpful!

Hey latch5, welcome!

Best,
-j

 

[Stangmeister9]

as crazy as this is going to sound it actually works. go to your local sporting goods store (Academy) and buy a bungie cord belt or any thing like that. it is about the width of a seat belt but padded and has velcro and a plastic buckle on the other end in order to tie the ends together. strap it around the back support of your set and run it just under your arm pits at you lateral muscles and strap yourself in real tight. using this method and the g-lock work awesome! the belt only runs about $25 and you already have the g-lock. trust when i say it works cause i got leather seats and not the cash to buy new seats just for running at the track.

come to think of it the belt kinda looks like the kind body builders use but not as wide in the back area.

 

[94tbird]

i have zero airbag lights with my aftermarket seats. you gotta do it right

 

[latch5]

Wow -What a great forum!
Quick responses of value - a lot more options than I thought. Not sure of my direction but will post what I do and how effective it is.
Welcome any other ideas/opinions.

At this point it looks like I go the chest strap route + A-arms and Fay2 or do a proper race seat and put of the suspension upgrades to next year.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

At this point it looks like I go the chest strap route + A-arms and Fay2 or do a proper race seat and put of the suspension upgrades to next year.

Well, I don't know if it will help tip the balance, but you can skip the A-arms altogether for now. The miniscule weight savings that you'll gain isn't worth the potential for disaster if there's a failure. Given that the hard-core racers are trashing one or two sets of balljoints per season, that indicates that there's a LOT of stress on those pieces. The stock arms hold up, maybe not so much with the tubular aftermarket pieces.

As for the Watt's link, I would hold off on that as well, UNLESS the following applies: If you can honestly say that you notice a "vague" feeling when the rear end takes a set in the corner, or you can feel the rear dancing around on a bumpy track, then you would be a good candidate for a Watts link. Keep in mind, though, that the FR500S makes do with STOCK (GT500) lower control arms, and until last season, a STOCK Panhard rod. And there was a LOT of engineering that went into that build.

Don't mod up the car until you can honestly identify specific bits of kit that are causing you problems, or until you start breaking OEM parts. Personally, if you've got the bruising thing going on, I would opt for seats and harnesses before a Watts link. Think about it: if you can corner even HARDER than before, that means you're going to slide around even more, as well. The difference in "feeling" what the car is doing with a proper seat is well worth the price of admission.

A lot of people will give you a laundry list of stuff that "has" to be done to the car, and will even make it sound like it'll crash and burn if you don't have the XYZ installed, but the FR500S is basically a stock car! 3600lbs, ALL of the suspension bits are OE (mostly GT500, which isn't that much of an upgrade), bone stock motor with headers and an intake. What they HAVE done to the car is classic track tech: killer dampers, great tires, and aero bits to help it all stick. That's it.

I did the "mod it first" routine, and I'm now in the middle of tearing of a bunch of (expensive!) pieces to help me fit into a specific Time Trials class. If I had waited until I really knew what I wanted to do with the car, I could have saved a few grand on go-fast bits, and spent that money on more track time.

 

[latch5]

You make some good points. Have 2 more questions then then move on as I don't think this issue needs to be an epic.
1-
A-Arms - I have heard that there may be some problems with the adjustable ones but heard nothing negative abt the non adjustable. Frankly I was going the tube A-arm route more to do away with the Hydrobushing an the stock set up. My racing mentor believes this is quiet and comfortable street bushing is a very week link for track application. Upgrading the hydrobushing would be more expensive than a BMR R&R. The weight loss was an added benefit
2-
If I go for the seats, I am leaning at having the stock seats reworked. It keeps a more stock like appearance and eliminates the possibility of air bag warning problems (+ maintains the functionality of the bag) - This is one of my daily drivers. I have read a bit about how to fool the airbag warning system when the seats are changes but don't understand it all and am a bit nerveous. Problem I see is the stock seats will not works as well as dedicated race seats and I'm sure the weight lose gains of changing seats would be dramatic.

Comments are welcome

 

[DusterRT]

Frankly I was going the tube A-arm route more to do away with the Hydrobushing an the stock set up. Upgrading the hydrobushing would be more expensive than a BMR R&R.

Maybe not. I found these the other day and have been thinking about giving them a shot. I've never heard of RUK, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're not good.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...0316931760&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK:MEWAX:IT

 

[Philostang]

Hmmm, I had the same dilemma for the last couple of years - DD demands really cramp properly pursuing your track interests. I just waited...hated that, so I paid the car off early and retired her and got another DD. Now I'm free!

You could just wait & make due with the CGLock... is that even an option?

I'm a bit leery of modifying the current seat bolsters, mainly due to worries that they'll make them better, but not really as adequate as you want. Remember, you're looking for a substantial improvement over the current seats w/CGLocks (at least I would for the cost you'll incur). I mean, are you really going to be happy spending $1,200 for a marginal improvement over what a $60 part provides? I'd be pretty ticked with myself if it played out that way.

One more thought: for that price, maybe you could get into a set of OEM GT500 seats? They have larger bolsters (bottom and side) than regular GT seats, as well as having sued inserts to help grip you in place (oops! I think only the newer ones do...looks like some of the older ones are all leather). Everything would be factory, so no worries, and you could probably try them out as a passenger if you run into one at the track. That way you get a sense of what you're buying before you fork out the funds.

Finally, you should also consider the GT500 seats as a point of comparison. If the shop that will modify the GT seats isn't going to do something more to them than would result in their looking/performing like GT500 seats, then you need to ask what's the benefit. I'm not saying there is no benefit; I honestly don't know. I am saying that you have an opportunity to gain clarity on this option by comparing it to the GT500 route.

Let us know what direction you go and how it turns out.

Best,
-j

PS. -HAH! Well there you go...3 min on Google and I found a set, $1,300 (incl. rear as well). I'm not sure what this board's etiquette is on posting links to other forums, so PM me for info if you can't find it on your own.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

A-Arms - I have heard that there may be some problems with the adjustable ones but heard nothing negative abt the non adjustable. Frankly I was going the tube A-arm route more to do away with the Hydrobushing an the stock set up. My racing mentor believes this is quiet and comfortable street bushing is a very week link for track application. Upgrading the hydrobushing would be more expensive than a BMR R&R. The weight loss was an added benefit

If the hydro bushing is your concern, Steeda sells a bushing insert set that effectively locks out the hydro portion, and substitutes a Poly ring in it's place. Comes with two different durometer rings, and is pretty cheap, comparitively speaking.

If I go for the seats, I am leaning at having the stock seats reworked. It keeps a more stock like appearance and eliminates the possibility of air bag warning problems (+ maintains the functionality of the bag) - This is one of my daily drivers. I have read a bit about how to fool the airbag warning system when the seats are changes but don't understand it all and am a bit nerveous. Problem I see is the stock seats will not works as well as dedicated race seats and I'm sure the weight lose gains of changing seats would be dramatic.

Comments are welcome

First off, the weight savings: IIRC, airbag-equipped power leather seats are around 85lbs, compared to FOURTEEN for a race seat with mounting base. They can be swapped around in less than 10 minutes with a bit of practice. Literally, it's two nuts, two bolts, and one electrical connector. Drive carefully to the track (assuming you change to race brakes at home), and you'll be fine, safety-wise. Second point: Cost. For the $1200 or so that the new, semi-functional seats will cost, you can do race seats, harnesses, and a rollbar or harness bar, and have money left over! If you do get your seats re-done, make sure that the inserts are changed over to suede, so that you have at least SOME grip available. OTOH, those are a PITA to keep clean, so...

 

[DusterRT]

Dave, do you still have your stock seatbelts in place? I just installed my bar and harnesses and took the belts out (I'm keeping the stock seats for now at least). I'm pretty sure I was able to override the seat belt thingamabob, but I'm getting a flashing airbag light. I think it's from the "seat belt tension sensor" that came off the passenger side belt, but I'm not 100% sure..I'm assuming if the inertia reels not being plugged in was going to throw a light, it would be the seatbelt light, but who knows..hopefully this makes sense, I've been thrashing nonstop since noon yesterday and I could very well be a little out of it, lol.

 

[Gray Ghost GT]

See these links:

http://www.modularfords.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97067&highlight=airbag+seat

http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2238

And of course, you could just do it the way the factory race cars are done...electrical tape over the dash light.

Thanks for posting those links! I printed the Word document instructions for future reference when I decide to install my Sparco Evo2Plus racing seats.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

I've got the stock front belts in place, because technically the Simpson 5-points are not DOT certified belts, and are therefore not legal for street use... I have airbag lights, but only for the passenger bladder, and the driver seat position sensor.

 

[latch5]

You all make a lot of sense. Picture is clearing up. If I swap in and out a racing seat I'd expect to have some dashlights and codes flashing when the aftermarket seats are in. My question - Will the "system" reset itself when recognizes that I put the OEM seats back in?