Very peculiar problem with AeroForce Interceptor after having new keys programmed...

[hammerdown]

What follows is either an amazing coincidence or something is definitely changed different... Here goes:

I just had my PATS system reprogrammed after loosing all the keys to my car and picked it up this evening to drive home.

I noticed immediately that my Aeroforce OBDII scan gauge was cycling power over and over and over again.. I had to reach down and unplug it and re-seat it to get it to come back on.

When I finally got it working again I noticed my AFR's were much leaner than I'm used to seeing even for Closed Loop/Cruising (car has a blower, CAI, larger MAF housing, blah blah blah..). My immediate concern was that having the PATS erased and reprogrammed somehow overwrote my tune back to stock.. This isn't supposed to happen, and I don't know for a fact that it did, but my suspicions were bolstered as it seemed like the speedo was reading way too fast (car also has 4:10's). So I pulled over in the nearest gas station and grabbed out my SCT handheld and flashed the tune back in. Although in retrospect, with the bigger injectors, and all the other changes, I'm not sure if the car could have even ran at all on a factory tune.. IDK maybe it would somewhat, or maybe it was all my hyperparanoia kicking in. Either way I reprogrammed it to be sure..

Pulled back out, AFR's looking good, Open Loop/Closed Loop transitions happening where they should be, speedo reading correct, life it good.

I get about a mile up the road and I get a total loss of power. Get the MIL, get the wrench light, theft light pops up, world has gone to hell in a handbasket. Push down the clutch, RPM's drop to 0, car rolls to a stop.

I use the AeroForce to pull codes:
P0607 (Indicates PCM/CPU has encountered an error)
P2707 (Electronic Throttle Control area of PCM failed self-test).

I try to start the car and it fired up normally. Thinking maybe it's just jitters from just having all this crap reprogrammed plus me re-flashing the tune. Use the AeroForce to clear the DTC's and drive on.

Get about two more miles up the road - same thing again.

Wash-rinse-repeat, and I'm off again. This time I limp it home by accelerating and stepping on the clutch and coasting, only using throttle in short bursts.

Get it in the driveway and it throws the codes again - engine dies. WTF?

Cycle the ignition key off and back on - attempt to start the car. I get a 'chick-chick-chick' sound, but not like when you have a dead battery. Much slower and much more pronounced. More like the starter is firmly engaging the flywheel at full force, but the solenoid is cycling on and off in almost a perfect twice a second rhythm. Dash gauge lights and scan gauge are cycling on and off in perfect lock step rhythm.

I turn the key off and back to run - fuel pump primes, but then I hear the rhythm again. This time it's the fuel pump priming up over and over and over just like I was cycling the key. Aeroforce Gauge is blinking on and off in rhythm.

I unplug the AeroForce from the OBDII and the cycling stops. OK, that's very strange, it's never done anything like this before.



Plug Aeroforce back in and the cycling starts up again.. It's literally as if there were a main power circuit braker and some little gremlin was sitting under the hood flipping it back and forth twice a second.

Ok, obviously something is up with either the AeroForce or the OBDII or both. Either way the two are mixing like oil and water and causing all sorts of problems. Causing DTC's and engine failure.



Leave the AeroForce unplugged and use my SCT to clear the codes and see what happens.

What happend was the car stopped acting up and ran perfectly.. I drove it to the next town over and left it idling in the driveway for nearly 30 min. No issues whatsoever (Aeroforce disconnected).

So now, the $64,000 question.. What changed between the time the car was playing nice with the AeroForce (before the PATS reprogramming) and after I picked it up when all this nonsense started?..

It could very likely be the AeroForce shorting something on the OBDII circuit and it was just destined to eventually fail, but it's also VERY suspicious that life was good before the PATS programming, and this only started since I brought the car home this evening.

Either they changed something with the way OBDII acts while they were in there and now it conflicts with the AeroForce, or it's just an INCREDIBLE coincidence that the AeroForce just up and decided to fail and start causing electrical faults after I picked up the car from the dealership.

It doesn't seem like it would be likely but I suppost it's possible I could have caused something to change too as I was mucking about with AutoEnginuity for a couple of days trying everything I could to program my own keys. Although all that really involved was my attempting to clear DTCs and (unsuccessfully) gain PATS security access.
That thread is here: http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=81421

Very very strange; it's a mystery to me... Thoughts?
-HD

 

[Turbostangs90]

All I got is Wow! subscribed as I just bought my AeroForce Gauge setup

 

[hammerdown]

Well you're gonna love love love it. I rely on mine for everything.. AFR's, IATs, Fuel Press, OL/CL, Water Temp, you name it.. It had been working perfectly for me for about two years, and now this.

Beats the hell outta me man, but I'd still recommend their product, I've just got something funny that needs to get sorted out. I'm in contact with AeroForce on the matter too. I'll keep you guys posted though.

-HD

 

[Fullboogie]

The Interceptor is only a passive device that reads OBD data, so it's hard to believe it is causing the problems. But that being said, your unplugging it and the car running fine shows it has to be the problem, right? Sounds like a malfunction in the gauge has caused all this.

Contact the owner of Aeroforce - I think his name is Brian? He's known for being very helpful with gauge issues. Let us know how it works out.

Oh by the way, one last thought - how do you have the power/ground on the Interceptor run? Perhaps check your connections to make sure nothing is whacky. I wonder if a problem in this area could cause your issues...

 

[hammerdown]

- how do you have the power/ground on the Interceptor run? Perhaps check your connections to make sure nothing is whacky. I wonder if a problem in this area could cause your issues...

This seems the most plausible to me. P0607 is typically an internal programming fault. Fixes include re-flashing the software or replacing the PCM entirely.
However, other causes for P0607 can be:
Loose ground terminal on PCM/ECM
Dead or defective (12V main) battery
An open or short in the power or ground circuit
Loose or corroded battery terminals
Failed PCM/ECM

You asked about how I am powering the gauge? I am getting all power for the gauge from the OBDII port using the supplied pigtail. The only exception here is I have the wideband sensor module that is powered externally from the gauge and feeds back a reference voltage to one of the analog inputs.

That wideband module is powered by the SJB using an 18ga wire and an add-a-circuit. The box sits under my center console behind the shifter and and is grounded to the chassis (transmission tunnel).



More thoughts now that I'm chewing on this some more...
Perhaps there were some indicators I missed before I ever took the car in.

When I was trying to program the car myself before taking it in I noticed my dome lights were weaker than usual. I wrote it off to others saying that extended use of AutoEnginuity will drain the battery. I had it hooked up for about 1.5 hours total if that counts as extended use..?

The dealer mentioned that the car needed to be charged before they programmed the new keys since the battery was dead... Something had to be causing that power drain.

And what if there was a short then, that could drain the battery and would certainly piss off the CPU I would imagine if something was shorting the OBDII to ground..

I have a plan to further put together evidence as i leave work today since I drove the Mustang (problem free I might add).

When I leave I'm going to hook up my SCT and datalog my drive home with LiveLink. If it's an issue with the car being pissed off about having a scanner attached to it then the problem should follow to the SCT.

If the car has no issues being scanned while driving by the SCT then that further supports the malfunctioning AeroForce theory.

Of course at some point when I get a hot minute free between kids baseball practices/talent shows/camping trips, etc.. I'm gonna have to tear into my A-pillar and see what's going on with the Aeroforce wiring in case something is rubbing.. A good visual inspection will tell me a lot when I get some time for it.

---NOW---

None of this explains why P2107 is getting set. I don't have any idea (yeah I mis-quoted it above as 2707). It's the Throttle Actuator Control (TAC) Module Processor

Description: The electronic throttle control (ETC) area of the powertrain control module (PCM) failed the
self-test. The concern could be the result of an incorrect throttle position (TP) command, or
TAC motor wires shorted together.

Possible Causes:
TAC motor wire shorted together
TAC motor circuit wires short to PWR
Damaged electronic throttle body (ETB)
Damaged PCM


And again - none of this is happening when the AeroForce is unplugged from the OBDII port?... Hmmm... Need to figure out how all of this gets intertwined. Is ti the port or is it the gauge? That's what I hope to find out using the SCT to scan with.

 

[hammerdown]

Went ahead and plugged in the SCT. Set it to monitor most of the PIDS I had my aeroforce set up to do. Drove home scanning all the way without a hiccup.. Suggests to me it's nothing to do with having something plugged into the OBDII port.

Really beginning to believe the AeroForce is suspect now.

 

[Fullboogie]

Since the Interceptor plugs into the OBD port, I'd assume it would cause some problems if there were either an internal short or something physically wrong with the plug.

 

[hammerdown]

Well, I've been in contact with Aeroforce. I'm sending the gauge back to have it evaluated/repaired(if necessary). They seem to believe that there may be a power problem with the gauge.

Damn.. gonna have to be without. Oh well, I've watched what's going on with my tune long enough to know I've got nothing to worry about, but damn I don't like not being able to monitor my IATs and AFRs! I feel naked!

 

[Fryblade]

I know a low battery in these cars will cause them to act all crazy. My car is only a weekend or every other weekend warrior, If I leave a CD / CD,s in the shaker 500 system it will drain my battery over a week or 2 & kill it. I have the dual Aeroforce gauges in my car as well for about a year now with no problems. Mine do cycle on and off if im messing with them setting them up or after the car is off and ive been messing with them but they eventually turn off after a minute or so. Hope you find out the problem, sounds pretty bad.
My car did act wacky one time stumbling & studdering, then it would tack up past 2k rpms then finally wouldnt do nothing, come to find out I blew a fuse on my Kenny Bell Boostapump, thats about the only info I can give you.
Good luck

 

[hammerdown]

OK, well, this just beats the ever-loving shit outta me...

So after riding around for about a week with out the Aeroforce plugged in but having no issues scanning with my SCT, I removed it from the pillar pod to check the cable for rubbing, a short to ground somewhere maybe, anything.. it all looked good..

Plugged the gauge in and had it sitting in my lap and it worked fine. Rode around with it plugged in for about a week just laying free in the cupholder. No issues. Figured maybe then it's when my wideband is plugged in with it.

Remounted the gauge in the pod and re-connected the wideband sensor to it. Everything seems just peachy... So basically I've got no god damn idea at all what happened in the first place. Gremlins I guess.



So now that everything is back to normal I guess it will forever be a mystery unless it happens again down the road. I've got an auto-x coming up a week from this Sunday so if it doesn't show up before/during that then I'm going to consider the matter closed. It's whatever I guess.. Sometimes you just take what the defense gives you.

Too weird..
-HD

 

[Alfiedagr8]

Only problem I have with mine and it's like 3 yrs old. Is that it hates heat. When it's hot and I leave my windows up. When it turns on it's hard to read the screen.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Fullboogie]

Hammer,

It's possible that removing the gauge and the OBD connector several times "fixed" the issue you were having - perhaps it was a bad connection on one of the OBD pins. Anyway, don't complain or the problem will come back.

 

[hammerdown]

Hey man, I'm not bitchen about it LOL!.. just wish I had a straight answer is all. I consider myself a decent spark-chaser but sometimes the electronics in these cars can really get one over on me.

Suppose it's reasonable to assume re-seating the connector cleared the problem. I've seen it plenty of times before when I used to work on aircraft radios.

Anyway, keeping my fingers crossed. Thanks for lending your thoughts and advice brother.

-HD

 

[Turbostangs90]

Arent you supposed to remove the red jumper on the back of the gauge? If you dont the gauge will always be powered up therefore draining your battery over time. The instructions said something about removing the jumper and having to run your own 12v for power.

EDIT: Well Im reading the instructions now and it says it is okay to keep red jumper in place and get power from OBD II port as the gauge only draws 50mA when turned off. But says if it isnt turning off or on properly or if you are seeing excessive battery drain to remove the red jumper and go the 12v switched route.