Watts Link for improved street manners

[Vapour Trails]

To clarify, I'm using steeda sport springs, not the ultralites. The drop is 1", 200/175 rates. The sports are in between the ultralites (big drop, softer) and the competition (same drop as sport, highest spring rates).

Biggest issue with ride is impact harshness. The NT05 play a role here, they are known to be harsh but will be replaced soon. I have to check the rear bumpstops, I honestly can't remember if I trimmed them (I installed the springs 8 years ago).

D-specs are usually 4-5 turns out on the street, currently 3 front/4 back. The ride is very firm at this setting and the springs are very well controlled. 5-6 turns is more comfortable for impacts, but rebound control gets quite sloppy/float. I've heard that Koni yellow can deliver more impact forgiving performance without giving up proper rebound control.

To be more specific, the issue is mid corner bumps and uneven surfaces at moderate to higher speeds. The axle feels like it is dancing around.

I've decided that I will add a watts link, likely next spring. It will be a fun experiment if nothing else, and good for the economy.

 

[Sky Render]

 

[740weapon]

Over damp the front and soften the back shocks. I run konis 1.75 turns front and full soft rear. 1 turn rear makes the car a nightmare.

 

[noldevin]

Over damp the front and soften the back shocks. I run konis 1.75 turns front and full soft rear. 1 turn rear makes the car a nightmare.

I agree with this. With my konis I can stiffen the front quite a lot and it doesn't seem to hurt ride quality much. Stiffen the rear even a little and its like riding a jackhammer with a seat.

 

[stevbd]

Vapour, when it comes to getting decent roll stiffness in a daily driver without excessive impact harshness, I'm a big believer in the Bilstein monotube dampers with their digressive valving. Yeah, you have to wade through a lot of marketing hype but I think that tech advantage is real. I've used Koni yellows myself for years (not on my Mustang) and the adjustablility is kind of cool. But the problem IMO is that once you get the Konis stiff enough to control roll and dive, the ride over sharp bumps, potholes, etc. goes totally to hell. No personal experience with Tokicos but maybe a similar problem? Bilsteins are much better on this point.

I'm waiting on Vorshlag's "street pro" setup (FRPP P springs and bilsteins) and will report back on how much it reduces the skittishness compared to stock on a 2011 non-Brembo suspension, if at all. I live outside Boston and drive on horribly bumpy narrow two lane roads where my stock suspension feels like it's going to skid into the weeds. So I know of what you speak. On the track is not the problem.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Over damp the front and soften the back shocks. I run konis 1.75 turns front and full soft rear. 1 turn rear makes the car a nightmare.

I agree with this. With my konis I can stiffen the front quite a lot and it doesn't seem to hurt ride quality much. Stiffen the rear even a little and its like riding a jackhammer with a seat.

What rear springs are you guys running?

With OE springs all around, I was running the rear shocks at +.5 turn on the street most of the time and at least +1.25 on the track. Struts were normally about 3/8 turn higher.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

Vapour, when it comes to getting decent roll stiffness in a daily driver without excessive impact harshness, I'm a big believer in the Bilstein monotube dampers with their digressive valving. Yeah, you have to wade through a lot of marketing hype but I think that tech advantage is real. I've used Koni yellows myself for years (not on my Mustang) and the adjustablility is kind of cool. But the problem IMO is that once you get the Konis stiff enough to control roll and dive, the ride over sharp bumps, potholes, etc. goes totally to hell. No personal experience with Tokicos but maybe a similar problem? Bilsteins are much better on this point.

What you do is find your track settings plus one or two softer street settings and swap between/among them as the driving situation dictates. On the S197 anyway, access to the adjustments is excellent up front and pretty good in the rear, making it about a 5 minute job to reset all four.

As to Tokicos, the older Illuminas are flat-out harsh, like almost solid going over sharp bumps like railroad tracks that aren't level with the asphalt. D-specs (which *may* have evolved from the Ill's) might be better, but that really wouldn't take much, and it might have been the same crew working them up).


Norm

 

[740weapon]

What rear springs are you guys running?

With OE springs all around, I was running the rear shocks at +.5 turn on the street most of the time and at least +1.25 on the track. Struts were normally about 3/8 turn higher.


Norm

Hey Norm, I'm using stock Brembo springs. But with 18x10.5 rims, 275 Rival S tires, Camber/caster plates on max and camber-slotted struts on max I have tons of front grip and the back end has to do whatever it can to stay planted and put the power down.

 

[noldevin]

What rear springs are you guys running?

With OE springs all around, I was running the rear shocks at +.5 turn on the street most of the time and at least +1.25 on the track. Struts were normally about 3/8 turn higher.


Norm

I have the BMR handling springs for the GT. 200lbs in rear I believe. I keep the rears at about 25% stiff and the fronts are more like 80% stiff. I'm still not quite happy with how it works as a package. The front doesn't quite respond how I'd like it and the car still feels like it lags behind the RE11s just a bit. Better dampers might do the trick, but I'm not convinced that alone will make up the difference I want. Maybe a larger front swaybar or the vorshlag bilstein coilover kit is in order.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Thanks, guys.

noldevin - I have indeed found that the rear shock setting can't be nearly as firm with the firmer 'Handling' springs (I've got BMR's GT500 220's) as was still reasonable with the OE springs.

I did find that I needed to firm up the rear bar stiffness a little (but only a little) to retain the behavior I'd previously had with the OE springs. At a rear bar rate of about 135 lb/in, there was clearly more cornering power but a decidedly heavier feel/understeer. At 185 the rear was too twitchy on corner entry with trail braking but not bad otherwise (as near as I could tell without being on the track). 162-ish seems to be the "Goldilocks" setting.


Norm

 

[Pentalab]

Vapour, when it comes to getting decent roll stiffness in a daily driver without excessive impact harshness, I'm a big believer in the Bilstein monotube dampers with their digressive valving. Yeah, you have to wade through a lot of marketing hype but I think that tech advantage is real. I've used Koni yellows myself for years (not on my Mustang) and the adjustablility is kind of cool. But the problem IMO is that once you get the Konis stiff enough to control roll and dive, the ride over sharp bumps, potholes, etc. goes totally to hell. No personal experience with Tokicos but maybe a similar problem? Bilsteins are much better on this point.

I'm waiting on Vorshlag's "street pro" setup (FRPP P springs and bilsteins) and will report back on how much it reduces the skittishness compared to stock on a 2011 non-Brembo suspension, if at all. I live outside Boston and drive on horribly bumpy narrow two lane roads where my stock suspension feels like it's going to skid into the weeds. So I know of what you speak. On the track is not the problem.

Yes, let us know how the P spring / Vorshlag Bilstein combo works out.
I'm seriously considering the BMR GT-500 lowering springs ( SP070, 220 front / 200 rear) + Vorshlag Bilsteins for next spring. Norm is using the SP072, 260 front /220 rear.

I don't require the 1.5" front + rear drop of the BMR GT springs. The GT-500 springs, when used on a GT, will provide for less drop, like .5" front....and 1" rear, which is ample for my application.

 

[Sky Render]

I thought your car had a heater? I mean supercharger? Because if so, the drop will be similar to that of a GT500 due to the added weight.

 

[Gabe]

I thought your car had a heater? I mean supercharger? Because if so, the drop will be similar to that of a GT500 due to the added weight.

07-10 GT500's still weigh more due to the iron block, that's ~100 lbs more by itself

 

[Sky Render]

Dang, I knew the aluminum block saved weight, but I didn't think it was THAT much.

 

[BMR Tech]

Watt the heck is going on in here.

Now we are talking about GT500 springs on a GT?!? Blasphemy!

 

[Norm Peterson]

The after-aftermarket solution to the too-soft OE springs?




Norm

 

[Sky Render]

The primary difference between a GT and GT500 in terms of suspension is the increased weight of the 5.4/5.8L motor. GT500s have a higher front spring rate to compensate for this. So, IMO, if you have a GT with aftermarket forced induction, utilizing GT500 springs may be a good idea to deal with the added front weight.

 

[Pentalab]

I thought your car had a heater? I mean supercharger? Because if so, the drop will be similar to that of a GT500 due to the added weight.

The 07-10 GT-500 coupe weighs 3950 lbs. The vert weighs 4050 lbs. The GT-500 coupe is a good 200 lbs heavier than a 2010 GT.
I had a 1" front + rear drop for the last 5 years. The front is now only 1/2" drop, which I'm starting to like better. A 1.5" front drop is way over the top imo, for a DD, you would be scraping all sorts of stuff. I already have the eng dropped 1/4" as is, and the PA auto tranny pan is 2.1" deeper than oem. Then the LT's, and 4" diam high flow cats. The pypes M80's, just b4 the rear axle is still the lowest thing in there.

Too bad that BMR decided on this 1.5" front + rear drop thing, it's too much imo. But folks don't seem to be getting near that, even with GT springs. Norm is seeing barely 1/2" if that, using GT-500 springs. Adding the blower would only increase the front drop by .2" .

 

[Norm Peterson]

I might ultimately end up about 1/8" lower than that due to spring settling. My car does have quite a few miles on these springs with the car very close to max loading per the door sticker and is down at least 1/16" from where I measured it initially.

I really can't fault BMR for providing springs that better suit the vast majority of those who get into suspension modification. The market between those who lower mainly for appearance sake and those who do so specifically for performance but stop short of the coilover solution is probably pretty damn thin.


Norm

 

[MechE]

Too bad that BMR decided on this 1.5" front + rear drop thing, it's too much imo. But folks don't seem to be getting near that, even with GT springs. Norm is seeing barely 1/2" if that, using GT-500 springs. Adding the blower would only increase the front drop by .2" .

Not to get too far off topic but I just put the GT handling springs on with Bilsteins and after 500 miles, I'm looking at about 3/4" up front and 1 1/4" drop in the rear. I got them in spite of the 1.5" drop not because of it. I couldn't be happier with a much higher, linear rate spring that looks better too.