IAT's and spark

Gentlemen couple questions for you. Please. KB 2.6, 8.5psi with KB factory tune. Stock TB.

Was watching IATs today. 75 degrees ambient temp and sunny. After getting warmed up fully from cruising they were around 125-130 at idle. While driving at 45mph they did not seem to go down much and still hovered around the 122-128 degree mark. There is plenty of fluid (70/30 mix w/WW) in the intercooler and the pump is working fine. So not sure why they don't fall much when the car is in motion. I went WOT, 1st-3rd gear, and they did climb some but not that much. I let off at 90 and the values were still under 140. I am assuming this is OK but just looking for some reassurance. Per the boost gauge the car is seeing the proper pressure when WOT.

I noticed I was unable to get the car to spin from a roll in 1st with the goodyear f1s today. I was surprised. It seems like these relocation brackets made a huge difference with traction. But doubts persist and I wonder if something could be wrong, like it is pulling timing. I have an aeroforce interceptor gauge and it can monitor Spark Retard and Ignition Advance. Which of those values should I be watching to tell if it is pulling timing and what values should I be expecting?

TIA

When I installed mine I was having the same temps as you are. I was told to switch to pure distilled water and just add some Purple Ice but because of Cali. weather (Not a chance of water freezing). The times I check the IAT with my predator hooked up I see 130-140 on idle but only after city driving and while cruising I see like 120-122. I would say it's normal and someone once told me that the car starts pulling timing after 150. Maybe someone else can chime in with a more info.

Pretty wild- your IC'd IAT's are about the same as mine non-IC'd have been- at WOT at 8 PSI from my Novi 1200 I'm seeing ~140ish IATs. Outside temperature ~85*. Cruising they drop into the 120s.

I would have to think that you'd see lower IATs, being intercooled- unless PD blowers like yours just have higher discharge temps by nature? Not sure. Let's see what the knowledgeable KB/Whipple guys have to say.

I asked KB when their tune pulls timing due to IAT and haven't heard back yet.

DA is already hitting 5000' here in town and I know that can effect power. And the relocation brackets help w/traction. Still - this is a 4.10 car w/a twin screw. If it can't break traction from a roll in first on those goodyears then I think most people here would say there has to be something broken.

There is a local dyno and I may make an appointment to do a pull or two.

from SCT it shows that kb tune pulls 20* at 144*F fwiw

If you have an SCT handheld and a laptop, to datalog using Livelink as you can measure a PID for inlet temp for spark retard as well as many others that most OBDII scanners won't have access to.

The tune that Lito wrote for me pulls timing when the IAT's hit 130 as a reference. Those IAT's do seem high for cruising in 75deg weather though. They are higher than my IAT's were in 90deg the other day.

I'd agree to switch to 100% distilled with some purple ice or similar until the cold weather comes around again.

stang67gt said:

from SCT it shows that kb tune pulls 20* at 144*F fwiw

If you have an SCT handheld and a laptop, to datalog using Livelink as you can measure a PID for inlet temp for spark retard as well as many others that most OBDII scanners won't have access to.

Click to expand...

They could not be pulling that much, you may be reading only the retard table.

Also, the value file SCT provide is not exactly the file they sent with the kit.

I would have to drain the intercooler every year and refill for the winter if I went to 100% water. Right now it's a 70/30 mix w/WW per the KB instructions.

I have an appointment for the dynojet this weekend. I'm going in at 8AM and it should be around 55-65 degrees outside. I am expecting 420+ SAE with my setup. This should answer concretely whether there is a prob or not.

It would be difficult to believe but if it gets reasonable results on the dyno then I guess I have a freak car that just wants to stay hooked even w/o drag radials.

lito said:

They could not be pulling that much, you may be reading only the retard table.

Also, the value file SCT provide is not exactly the file they sent with the kit.

Click to expand...

my apologies... but still think the OP should datalog before spending time at a dyno.

stang67gt said:

my apologies... but still think the OP should datalog before spending time at a dyno.

Click to expand...

Not need to and absolutely would be good.

It's going to cost me $100 to do two pulls on the dynojet. Seems reasonable. I have a local tuner (K&K) who is meeting me out there and hopefully we can take a log during the pulls. He's got a laptop already setup for this so it should make things easy.

Riptide said:

Was watching IATs today. 75 degrees ambient temp and sunny. After getting warmed up fully from cruising they were around 125-130 at idle. While driving at 45mph they did not seem to go down much and still hovered around the 122-128 degree mark.

Click to expand...

That does seem strange. I see 125-130 at idle, but it will drop into the 80-90 range while moving a city speeds (30-50mph). Intercool pump is working? No kinks in the lines?

Pump seems fine. I took the cap off and the fluid is moving briskly. I see an occasional bubble in there but I doubt it's a problem.

Also, AFR and LTFT look good. Just replaced the plugs last weekend so those are brand new.

I don't know about KB blowers so I'll ask the question. Where is your IAT sensor located? Is it post IC?

Also, when you're trying to break the tires loose in 1st, is your traction control on?

TC turned off. The IAT sensor is post compressor that much I know for sure.

EDIT: Attached a photo, IAT sensor circled in red.

Put the car on the dyno today. Was nice and cool this morning. Apparently the car is fine. 450/392 sae.

http://i.imgur.com/HWPnK.jpg

I still kinda wonder about IATs though. It was warm and sunny today in the low 70s. If the car sits after it's been run the sensor starts out as high as 140's when you goto drive it again. No huge deal but it takes quite a bit of 40+ mph driving without many red lights before those temps get back down into the high 120s again. Seems pretty warm to me but everything seems fine near as I can tell w/the intercooler. Warmed up idle at lights is in the mid 130s.

I can shed some light on the subject, since I have a KB 2.6 with similar setup (albeit more boost).

My IATs run about 130-140 normally as well, even with intercooling.
Timing in my tune doesn't get pulled until like 160 or higher (I asked my tuner, but dont remember when it starts getting pulled).

With the IAT sensor mounted in the front of the intake like it is, that really makes me wonder if the IAT sensor is accurate, or if the sensor gets hot from the engine heat and is not just sensing the compressed intake air temp.

I also monitor the intercooler coolant temp, as it exits the intercooler under the blower. It'll tend to get up to 110-120 itself, so that seems to confirm the IATs, which still read a little higher than the coolant temps.

The air intake design is supposed to be pulling in cooler air and thus result in lower IATs. It may be doing that well, but the intercooler fluid plus the engine heat may be causing issues and making it run hotter.

Putting an IAT sensor ahead of the blower would be an interesting thing to do, and see what the IATs are really running before the blower.

These KB must run warm then. It got into the mid 80s today and once the car was fully warmed up I was seeing cruising IAT in the low 130s with the aeroforce. Yikes!

Here's a vid I took this morning before starting the car of my IC running. I'm assuming this flow level is what I should expect to see?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n97KxxAgLlA

And here's a vid of the dyno pull I did Saturday morning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgaJ_QxBbvQ

I really do wonder if the IAT's are correct on these things cause that's awfully warm for just cruising. When I drove my car into work this morning my IAT's on the highway were 85-95 on my e-force and I can't see the KB being that much higher. My IAT's are also with the stock cooling set-up back in the car since I took the trunk tank out for weight savings.

Can't comment on the flow, as the Lightning pump I'm using seems to flow more quickly than that. But I dont think that really matters.

Dysan, were you IAT's lower with the trunk-mounted tank?
I'm thinking, if the IAT readings are accurate, the air charge isn't getting cooled much, perhaps due to heat-soak in the coolant. As I posted, the coolant temp coming out of the i/c isn't that much lower than the IATs.

Is this more a function of poor i/c cooling, or actually higher air temps going in to the TB?

(Having had a FMIC air/air and seeing IATs very near ambient with that former setup, seeing how high IATs are with this KB are, IMO, the only big 'negative' with the setup.)