Spark Plug Experts, how do these plugs look to you? Possible #8 issue

[RSKtakR]

is there a reason your running a 93 tune with 91 octane?

they had told me that it was ok to do..its the only tune other then the E85 I have been running for almost 22k miles. been on the track w/ this same tune as well. Last time I datalogged it there wasnt much knock at all really, however it was cooler out then the 100 degrees it has been.

 

[way2qk4u2c]

Cool...good to know

 

[RSKtakR]

I do think that these problems are on the "aggressive tunes". I dont think they are coolant related at all if in fact what was just posted a bit ago about the coolant flow of these heads is true. I have called BBR twice now wanting my tune gone through and requested a tune specificlly for the 91 octane vs the 93 tune.. simply because I think that me running the 91 on a 93 octane tune puts me in that "aggressive" playing field, (which is a gamble I dont really like all to well). Yet they have told me everytime I call and ask about it or request the 91 octane tune, that my tune for the 93 while running 91 is fine.. Chris had made this mistake WAY back when I first got this car and the tune, in June/July of 2010. I dont have 93 around here, only 87, 89, 91, and E85. Opinions??

 

[DIB5.0]

I have a 93 Lund Street tune. He told me i could run 91 and the it would adjust accordingly.

 

[RSKtakR]

I have a 93 Lund Street tune. He told me i could run 91 and the it would adjust accordingly.

ok good to know..

 

[Black 5.0]

I have a 93 Lund Street tune. He told me i could run 91 and the it would adjust accordingly.

My question is, will he cover damages if he's wrong?

It would be interesting, if not informative, to show the datalogging numbers in real time. Also, I'm interested in min/max parameters for the 5.0. What the recommendations are and such.

 

[94tbird]

i believe the computer auto adjsuts for fuel used on these newer PCM's no? i wouldnt use a 93 octane tune with 87 but 91-93, if the pcm is supposed to auto adjsut might be ok

Also if it does auto adjsut, what if its the auto adjsuting pcm thats the problem ie thinks its 93 octane when theres 87 in the tank and ups the timing and boom.

 

[KJGT]

i believe the computer auto adjsuts for fuel used on these newer PCM's no? i wouldnt use a 93 octane tune with 87 but 91-93, if the pcm is supposed to auto adjsut might be ok

Also if it does auto adjsut, what if its the auto adjsuting pcm thats the problem ie thinks its 93 octane when theres 87 in the tank and ups the timing and boom.

The knock sensors on these are a pretty active part of the timing, they are not just a safety device thats pulls out timing and/or sends it into a low octane table until the knock stops. They can add timing as well if there is no knock, so if you change the sensitivity and change how much timing is added when no knock is detected thats bad. I have logs of a couple tunes that had 5-6 degrees more than stock, thats a LOT of timing added.

But there has to be something that is causing #8 to go first. Whether it a hot spot, bad intake distribution or some factory calibration issue who knows. Until someone gets serious on an engine dyno with 8 EGTs and figures it out we may never know. It could have been an issue with Ford's original calibration on the earlier cars that has been revised a couple times through TSBs so we may never know.

 

[19COBRA93]

There is no fuel sensor so the car has no idea what fuel you're running in it. With crap pistons like these have, I wouldn't rely on knock sensors to determine timing control. The OEM tune can pull timing down into the safe zone. Some of the aftermarket tunes don't seem to have the same control. If #8 is not failing from a heat issue (which I still think it is related), then it's got to be a lean or timing issue.

 

[Rob72]

If I have this right the whole issue going on here is that due to the position of the knock sensor and the tendency of #8 to detonate early the computer won't pick it up until it's too late in some circumstances. In other words there is no way I personally would run a 93 tune on 91 gas ESPECIALLY in the summer.

 

[Apex]

If I have this right the whole issue going on here is that due to the position of the knock sensor and the tendency of #8 to detonate early the computer won't pick it up until it's too late in some circumstances. In other words there is no way I personally would run a 93 tune on 91 gas ESPECIALLY in the summer.

That seems like part of it.. I think I would run a 91oct tune and run 93oct gas all the time incase on a hot day you got some crappy gas. I would think that this would atleast minimize risk, especially if combined with a good dyno tune on stock knock sensor tables?

 

[302]

If I have this right the whole issue going on here is that due to the position of the knock sensor and the tendency of #8 to detonate early the computer won't pick it up until it's too late in some circumstances. In other words there is no way I personally would run a 93 tune on 91 gas ESPECIALLY in the summer.

Hell, this whole #8 crap did not start until the weather started turning warm. If that doesn't tell you something, i don't know what does. Come september/october we won't hear nothing about this until april. I bet you.

 

[SRTthis]

all this reading the plugs is all well and good to see if number 8 is trashed like the OP's but you guys do understand your not getting an accuate reading on the plug for how the car is really running at WOT right? you know why we tow the race car back after every pass? no its not becuase its out of gas. its because once off the gas the plugs are worthless to us to tune off of.

unless yout running 100% WOT then shut it down your not going to learn much off the plugs

 

[94tbird]

all this reading the plugs is all well and good to see if number 8 is trashed like the OP's but you guys do understand your not getting an accuate reading on the plug for how the car is really running at WOT right? you know why we tow the race car back after every pass? no its not becuase its out of gas. its because once off the gas the plugs are worthless to us to tune off of.

unless yout running 100% WOT then shut it down your not going to learn much off the plugs

100% true, however i think we are just trying to see if there's damage, excessive oil, ect to #8. not trying to tune off of them. Trying to figure out the 100% cause of the #8 issue.

 

[SRTthis]

100% true, however i think we are just trying to see if there's damage, excessive oil, ect to #8. not trying to tune off of them. Trying to figure out the 100% cause of the #8 issue.

that was more toward the your running lean... your running rich... your this your that... posts!
while the plugs are nice to see on a motor that let go. to say yes... number 8 has let go... id personaly like to see a car on the dyno make a full WOT pull and shut it down to see if the "number 8 issue" is truely tune related. number 1-8 all in a line in order would go a long way.

 

[94tbird]

willing to extend someone some dyno time? id be interested to see that as well

 

[SRTthis]

willing to extend someone some dyno time? id be interested to see that as well

thats up to rick... im in maryland and they are in south carolina...

 

[VTXFrank]

Saying that you cannot tell if, over time and mileage, that a spark plug isn't able to reveal a lean or rich condition is just wrong. Sure, it's better to do a WOT pull and see how it reads, but that certainly doesn't mean pulling a plug tells you nothing, Derek.


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[SteveP]

all this reading the plugs is all well and good to see if number 8 is trashed like the OP's but you guys do understand your not getting an accuate reading on the plug for how the car is really running at WOT right? you know why we tow the race car back after every pass? no its not becuase its out of gas. its because once off the gas the plugs are worthless to us to tune off of.

unless yout running 100% WOT then shut it down your not going to learn much off the plugs

wait, its not because they ran out of fuel? LOL jk. Good and a very true statement here! Props bud!

 

[302]

all this reading the plugs is all well and good to see if number 8 is trashed like the OP's but you guys do understand your not getting an accuate reading on the plug for how the car is really running at WOT right? you know why we tow the race car back after every pass? no its not becuase its out of gas. its because once off the gas the plugs are worthless to us to tune off of.

unless yout running 100% WOT then shut it down your not going to learn much off the plugs

mine was 2nd gear wot up to about 6k then I killed it in front of my house....