3:73 OR 4:10 what do you guys think?

kdanner

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You guys can't forget the tire either.

I use a PG with a 1.80 1st gear (LMAO) and 4.11s, but I also knew that I would be squeezing out of the hole with 1100 hp (total) and using a 29.5 tall tire.

Ideally I think you guys would want whatever gear it takes to go through the traps in 4th at the 7500 or whatever rpm you guys are pushing, combined with the tallest tire (for larger footprint, better traction under not so good track conditions, etc.).

So, for example, if I had the choice of running 3.31s with a 26 tall tire or 4.10s with a 28 tall, I would run the 4.10s with a 28 tall. Not sure how the math works out with these cars but you get the idea.

Oh I don't forget the tire. I'm switching to 30x9". That may allow me to move to a 3.55 gear unless the car runs too much speed, then I'll have to stick with 3.31. They also make that size tire in different compounds and in both a radial and bias, so lots of opportunity to choose the right tire for the current track/weather conditions.

Do the math -- 4.30 gear, 4.17 in the trans, a 28" tire which is only going to be about a 27.5" loaded diameter, being limited to 7700 RPM, that's only 35 MPH. Way too early. I think you'd agree that you don't want your car shifting before the 60', and that is exactly what you get when you throw gear at these things. I have the data, even at the TX mile where I don't use 1st gear and just roll into the throttle in 2nd gear I'm at 30 MPH after having traveled only 51 feet, so there's zero doubt I can hit that 35 in less than 60' at WOT using 1st gear.

The reality is that there are many good things about this trans, but the ratios are just absolutely horrid, it doesn't even have a 1:1 gear either. I used to think just like Casper, that I needed all that gear. 2 things happened. One, I saw that Jimmy Vaccaro was running really good using only a 3.31 and I was surprised at that, so I did the math and saw that allowed him to use only 3 gears. So two, I did a calibration for my car that made it leave in second gear. It slowed down less than a tenth vs a calibration using first gear testing them back to back on the same day. After I made the gear change to 3.31 the car started going down the track every time. Before that I could get one or maybe two good hits in before there just wasn't enough starting line left to hold it anymore. It just flat out made it a better car even if it did feel rather boring in comparison to when it had the 4.30 axle.
 

casper gt

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Boss intake, 3.31, Hoosier DOT drag radial. 7,600 rpm shift points.

that wouln't really work for 2 reasons.

1, I can't go faster than 11.0 in open competition

2, if you try to tone that combo down to run an 11.0x-11.1x ish consistantly then you wouln't have the gear to pull the car back out if you have to pedal.

ultimately I think thats where we are butting heads, I'm a bracket racer, period, the 10.78 run was just to prove we could do it with this combo. you guys aren't really setting your cars up for bracket racing.

my question still is (although I think I know the answer) if your setting the car up only to bracket race with & take into account all the pitfalls associated with bracket racing (along with the fact your not trying to set all out records) then what do you think you'd do diffrent? the same? don't have an answer?

again, just curious.
 

kdanner

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if you try to tone that combo down to run an 11.0x-11.1x ish consistantly then you wouln't have the gear to pull the car back out if you have to pedal.

How do you figure? You pedal a bracket car on the big end, in the last gear you're going to be using for the run.

1.52*3.31=5.03
1.14*4.1=4.67
1.14*4.3=4.90

So with the 3.31 in 3rd, you're pulling more gear ratio at that time than you would be in 4th gear even if you went to 4.30.
 

casper gt

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How do you figure? You pedal a bracket car on the big end, in the last gear you're going to be using for the run.

1.52*3.31=5.03
1.14*4.1=4.67
1.14*4.3=4.90

So with the 3.31 in 3rd, you're pulling more gear ratio at that time than you would be in 4th gear even if you went to 4.30.

hummm, interesting.

back to the drawing board I guess.
 

05stroker

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You guys can't forget the tire either.

I use a PG with a 1.80 1st gear (LMAO) and 4.11s, but I also knew that I would be squeezing out of the hole with 1100 hp (total) and using a 29.5 tall tire.

Ideally I think you guys would want whatever gear it takes to go through the traps in 4th at the 7500 or whatever rpm you guys are pushing, combined with the tallest tire (for larger footprint, better traction under not so good track conditions, etc.).

So, for example, if I had the choice of running 3.31s with a 26 tall tire or 4.10s with a 28 tall, I would run the 4.10s with a 28 tall. Not sure how the math works out with these cars but you get the idea.
I want as much gear that the rpm will allow in the gear I want to be in at the trap speed I am turning..
 

GeorgeInNePa

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my thoughts exactly, I gave my proven opinion, the o/p doesn't want a converter, he made it clear numerous times, so all thats left is gears.

if you go from 3.15's to 3.31's with no other changes, you will see no gains, period.

3.55's & 3.73's both leave you going accross in the middle of 4th, again no gains, that leaves 4.10's as the obvious choice with no converter.

I can't help it if those among us with none to little track experiance don't agree but I certainly wouln't remain quite when questionable info is given out.

see thats the diffrence between us scot, I have facts & real world track/street experiance to back up my opinions, not just what I read on the internet, but when it comes down to it, you seem to think your opinion is all that counts.
The math for 3.55s and a 30" tall radial slick (Stock Eliminator tire {*/SA}) works out for the top of third, if you shift at 7600+...


ETA:
Danner already covered it above...
 
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casper gt

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The math for 3.55s and a 30" tall radial slick (Stock Eliminator tire {*/SA}) works out for the top of third, if you shift at 7600+...


ETA:
Danner already covered it above...

no ones talking about 30 inch slicks or shifting at 7600+

the comments I made reguarding 3.55's/3.73's were when we were still talking about the o/p's needs for a relatively stock car with 27's on it.

I realize that everyone seems to think you can't go fast without shifting at 7500+ but the fact of the matter is we were shifting at 6900 in the video & went accross at 6850.

why spin the car if you don't need to?
 

GeorgeInNePa

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no ones talking about 30 inch slicks or shifting at 7600+

the comments I made reguarding 3.55's/3.73's were when we were still talking about the o/p's needs for a relatively stock car with 27's on it.

I realize that everyone seems to think you can't go fast without shifting at 7500+ but the fact of the matter is we were shifting at 6900 in the video & went accross at 6850.

why spin the car if you don't need to?

If you are trying to do it with 3 gears, you need to spin it high.

If you are using 4th gear, you can drop the shift points if you want to. You also drop the RPM after the shift and spend more time climbing out of the basement, but whatever makes you happy...
 

casper gt

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If you are trying to do it with 3 gears, you need to spin it high.

If you are using 4th gear, you can drop the shift points if you want to. You also drop the RPM after the shift and spend more time climbing out of the basement, but whatever makes you happy...

my response to that would be watch the video again & try to pick out a spot where the car seems to working to "climb out of the basement"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzxB_HRflYY
 

kdanner

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1, I can't go faster than 11.0 in open competition

Curious why this is, I saw you were buying a roll bar. Are they getting you on the trans blanket and axles? That stuff is really no big deal, took care of it a long time ago. Putting 9" ends on is the best way.
 

casper gt

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I saw you mention on another forum today you aren't sold on the 3.31. Exactly what aren't you sold on?

http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...video-my-buddy-made-my-last-track-outing.html

I am a bit confused by some of your responses.

that was strickty in response to the o/p's situation with his particular combo.

what I'm not sold on for him is where he wil be 60' wise & his future plans for nitrous.

I think my rsponses are logical most times because I take great pains to try & understand what the o/p wants & where they are headed.

if they ask for my opinion straight out (as the o/p of this thread did) then I give it, if just a general response is required, I try to temper it to the o/p's needs rather than my own.

I know things don't always add up, but you have to try to look at the big picture IMO, not just one comment in one thread on one forum.
 

wbt

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that was strickty in response to the o/p's situation with his particular combo.

what I'm not sold on for him is where he wil be 60' wise & his future plans for nitrous.

I think my rsponses are logical most times because I take great pains to try & understand what the o/p wants & where they are headed.

if they ask for my opinion straight out (as the o/p of this thread did) then I give it, if just a general response is required, I try to temper it to the o/p's needs rather than my own.

I know things don't always add up, but you have to try to look at the big picture IMO, not just one comment in one thread on one forum.

His plans for nitrous were late in the thread. That is a game changer vs. his goals for N/A. I have traded a number of PM's with him over several months about his combo and what makes sense for his N/A stuff. He fights many of the same issues I do with our local track being mediocre most of the time along with poor air. He has done great with his combo and self tuning.

Now that he has plans for nitrous and a goal of 9's, his gear choice obviously changes. Some things to consider are:

1. How high does he plan to spin the motor? (Boss intake on the car now.)
2. What are his MPH goals? I would guess 135ish would be close.

If you take those items into consideration, the following gear choices are the most optimal:

4th gear -
3.90
28" tire
7,500
MPH: 140

3rd gear -
2.73
28" tire
7,500
MPH: 150

Now given those choices, I would plan to run the 3.90.

If he moves back to the stock intake and limits RPM to 7,300, a 3.73 is a good choice.

I agree about the end goals and looking at the larger picture however there are some unknows he hasn't made public yet.

For his N/A combo, backing down to a 3.31 is his best choice given the conditions he typically runs in. :thumb:
 

casper gt

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His plans for nitrous were late in the thread. That is a game changer vs. his goals for N/A. I have traded a number of PM's with him over several months about his combo and what makes sense for his N/A stuff. He fights many of the same issues I do with our local track being mediocre most of the time along with poor air. He has done great with his combo and self tuning.

Now that he has plans for nitrous and a goal of 9's, his gear choice obviously changes. Some things to consider are:

1. How high does he plan to spin the motor? (Boss intake on the car now.)
2. What are his MPH goals? I would guess 135ish would be close.

If you take those items into consideration, the following gear choices are the most optimal:

4th gear -
3.90
28" tire
7,500
MPH: 140

3rd gear -
2.73
28" tire
7,500
MPH: 150

Now given those choices, I would plan to run the 3.90.

If he moves back to the stock intake and limits RPM to 7,300, a 3.73 is a good choice.

I agree about the end goals and looking at the larger picture however there are some unknows he hasn't made public yet.

For his N/A combo, backing down to a 3.31 is his best choice given the conditions he typically runs in. :thumb:

I have no problem with any of that logic, I have known of his nitrous plans for quite some time though, so that played into my response some even though it wasnt mentioned.

contary to popular beleif, I have no probelm with the 3.31 2 shift train of thought either, but as a general rule I run at tracks with superior track prep, so mabie I'm spoiled but that influences some of my decisions/comments & allows me to go steeper on gears than others might feel comfortable with.
 

wbt

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I have no problem with any of that logic, I have known of his nitrous plans for quite some time though, so that played into my response some even though it wasnt mentioned.

contary to popular beleif, I have no probelm with the 3.31 2 shift train of thought either, but as a general rule I run at tracks with superior track prep, so mabie I'm spoiled but that influences some of my decisions/comments & allows me to go steeper on gears than others might feel comfortable with.

Gotcha.

I like the thought of a 4.30 gear and Boss intake myself. If I could trust our local track with better prep I would have been on it months ago. :beerdrink:
 

kdanner

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I like this one:

3rd gear
3.08
295/65 or 315/60 Hoosier should be around 29" loaded diameter
7500RPM=138MPH

If he wants to spray it out of the hole(and he should) that combo has a far better chance at hooking.
 

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