Air/Fuel Ratio Questions - 14.0 Readings at WOT in 3rd-5th Gear

[iceguyb14]

Either way that's damn kool on the 2013s....... Enjoy the ride bro!

Lol thanks will do!

 

[Tucker]

Our 2013 does the same thing even with the tune.

Here's what our testing showed.
Stock with 87 fuel 12.0
Stock with 93 fuel 12.6-12.75
Tuned with JLT CAI 12.5

Each time the dash gauge would read 13.9-14.0
I don't think that's too accurate, but maybe Ken can help with why it says this.

 

[KenB]

Our 2013 does the same thing even with the tune.

Here's what our testing showed.
Stock with 87 fuel 12.0
Stock with 93 fuel 12.6-12.75
Tuned with JLT CAI 12.5

Each time the dash gauge would read 13.9-14.0
I don't think that's too accurate, but maybe Ken can help with why it says this.

Where were you logging these values?

Stock with 87 fuel 12.0
Stock with 93 fuel 12.6-12.75
Tuned with JLT CAI 12.5

To figure it out I would just need to get my hands on a 2013 and see what value they are displaying.

 

[Tucker]

Logged from rear o2

 

[KenB]

Logged from rear o2

I'd have to see a data log.

The dash may be showing commanded fuel and not the wideband info.

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[iceguyb14]

I'd have to see a data log.

The dash may be showing commanded fuel and not the wideband info.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

We'll get it figured out

 

[Tucker]

But commanded is the 12.0 right?

 

[KenB]

But commanded is the 12.0 right?

Not sure what you mean.

But the computer is going to command a certain A/F ratio at all times. But that may not be what your wideband reads.


Example:

At WOT, the computer is commanding .819 lambda (12:1 on a typical gauge)

The computer will try and maintain .819 lambda with feedback from the widebands.


BUT, if the curve is overly rich, a wideband in the tailpipe could read 11:1 because the widebands couldn't trim enough fuel out to get to 12:1. It's possible after a few more pulls the computer could get it back to 12:1 with learning.


My point is, commanded fuel doesn't always equal what the widebands are seeing or an aftermarket wideband.

So my question was, is the new factory gauge commanded fuel or an actual wideband reading. I would hope it's a wideband reading.

 

[Seer]

Ford advertises it as real time air fuel monitoring, so that would make me assume actual.

 

[Twinscrewgt]

Ford also advertised twin piston rear calipers in the brembo gt lol

 

[Seer]

Ford also advertised twin piston rear calipers in the brembo gt lol

Well you can monitor real time AF through the wideband PID on the OBDII, which is really all this dash gauge is doing. So I can't see why it wouldn't

 

[PvilleStang]

Can you monitor A/F with the twin piston rear calipers?

Joking aside, Command A/F has been showing in the ballpark of 13.25 to 14.0 on my AeroForce guages at 80% throttle when I get a chance to look down at the guage. I punched it a few times and did notice it go down, but I've yet to set a data log for it. I have noticed a slightly higher ratio in 3-5 gears over 1st and 2nd myself, so you may not have as much of an issue as once thought.

 

[KenB]

Well you can monitor real time AF through the wideband PID on the OBDII, which is really all this dash gauge is doing. So I can't see why it wouldn't

I can. lol. The same reason most oil pressure gauges are just an on/off gauge.

Sometimes the widebands don't read. When they aren't warmed up or for other reasons. Lets say in 3 years they go bad. The car will still run ok open loop. So if you were Ford, you could say....

Well commanded fuel should always match the actual A/F. And for 95% of the people buying it the difference isn't that important. If we make it the commanded fuel, then we won't get people thinking something is wrong when the wideband isn't reading.


Likely? No. But you never really know.

 

[Seer]

I can. lol. The same reason most oil pressure gauges are just an on/off gauge.

Sometimes the widebands don't read. When they aren't warmed up or for other reasons. Lets say in 3 years they go bad. The car will still run ok open loop. So if you were Ford, you could say....

Well commanded fuel should always match the actual A/F. And for 95% of the people buying it the difference isn't that important. If we make it the commanded fuel, then we won't get people thinking something is wrong when the wideband isn't reading.


Likely? No. But you never really know.

Oh wow, I'd just say that would be a poor decision to monitor commanded vs. actual on Ford's part.

CEL kicks on, P0174... system too lean?!?! But the damn dash reads 12.2

 

[KenB]

Oh wow, I'd just say that would be a poor decision to monitor commanded vs. actual on Ford's part.

CEL kicks on, P0174... system too lean?!?! But the damn dash reads 12.2

that could happen even if the wideband was being read. The system too lean doesn't mean that it's lean. It means that the long term trims are maxed out in that direction. It still could be getting the correct A/F

 

[Seer]

that could happen even if the wideband was being read. The system too lean doesn't mean that it's lean. It means that the long term trims are maxed out in that direction. It still could be getting the correct A/F

bad joke on my part...

 

[Laloosh]

To the guys with the 2013, what is the refresh rate like on the cluster? Maybe it is just lagging behind.

 

[iceguyb14]

UPDATE: I've tested it out a few times after talking to a few people. I've heard that even being at 95% the afr would be probably around 13.5-14 an only at 100% wot is when it would drop to around 12. Tested it out a few times pushing the pedal completely to the floor making sure its at 100% and almost every time it shows right at 12 on the gauge.

To the guys with the 2013, what is the refresh rate like on the cluster? Maybe it is just lagging behind.

The refresh rate seems to be about half a second or so. Definitely not the cause when doing a pull that lasts several seconds.

 

[slvr08gt]

UPDATE: I've tested it out a few times after talking to a few people. I've heard that even being at 95% the afr would be probably around 13.5-14 an only at 100% wot is when it would drop to around 12. Tested it out a few times pushing the pedal completely to the floor making sure its at 100% and almost every time it shows right at 12 on the gauge.



The refresh rate seems to be about half a second or so. Definitely not the cause when doing a pull that lasts several seconds.

Are you serious?

You mean to tell me this whole time youve been reporting the 14.0 A/F reading you werent even at WOT????? That could have been a little bit of important information to tell during this discussion. Just my .02 cents





Sweet baby Jesus.

 

[iceguyb14]

Are you serious?

You mean to tell me this whole time youve been reporting the 14.0 A/F reading you werent even at WOT????? That could have been a little bit of important information to tell during this discussion. Just my .02 cents





Sweet baby Jesus.

Lol no I'm not saying that. I'm saying I floored it before, but now I'm making a point to make sure I'm pushing the pedal really hard like I'm trying to jam it through the floor making sure it's all the way in and probably 90% of the time now it goes to 12.0 afr. sometimes still it stays around 14 though.