Alignment specs and launch help

[SUHleen]

Hey guys,

I have a built 05 and need some advice on alignment specs for the drag strip and also want to know if I'm doing anything wrong suspension wise. I cannot seem to cut better than a mid 1.6 60'. My best run so far is a 11.3 at 124/125 mph with a 1.6x 60'. Specs on car:

Quick engine specs:
- Built block forged and stroked
- KB 2.6 at about 16 psi (making 610 wheel and about 550 ft lbs on 93)
- Comp cams, built valve train but stock valves, Fox lake P&P heads
- Bassani headers
- Afco radiator
- Afco heat exchanger

Suspension/Drivetrain specs:
- Strange 10 way adjustable shocks and struts
- Newer cobra jet springs
- BMR adjustable UCA
- BMR double adjustable LCA
- BMR double adjustable a-arms
- AJE racing k-member
- S&W 9" rear stock width w/ true trac and 4.10's
- BMR Double adjustable panhard bar
- DSS aluminum shaft
- TR6060 stock gt500 clutch
- Shelby tr6060 shifter
- CHE torque limiters (currently trying it with only passenger torque limiter installed because headers in the way on driver side)
- No front or rear sway bars

I'm currently using the Mickey Thompson bias ply cheater slicks. I feel like I should be running in the 10's the way the car is setup now. Cant seem to get a great launch or 60' time. Car squats hard on the passenger side even with the shocks adjusted to be stiffer on the passenger side rear but maybe not enough? Do I need to install an air bag on the passenger side? Also, can I get some help with alignment specs for camber, toe, caster, etc? My suspension is all fully adjustable. Also, it seems like my car starts to fall on its face the last part of the 1/4, is this due to timing being pulled from heat? I just got the new GT500 fan, hoping that helps, and going to be cutting into my hood as well for some air flow.

Thanks in advance!

 

[rcm90]

Put the rear sway bar back on. That's why the car is twisting so bad. Make another pass with this and see what it does.

Adjust the rear shocks to the middle and the fronts to full loose.

You need to datalog the car to see what it is doing down track.

 

[SUHleen]

My 9" rear deletes the sway bar mounts. Any other way to defeat that? Subframe connectors or rear X brace?

Fronts are set to 0 rears are at about 5 clicks

 

[85GT 7.0]

Sway bar

It should be pretty simple to fab a mount for the sway bar mounts. Subframe connectors and rear x-brace would stiffen the body, I don't think that is the problem.

My 9" rear deletes the sway bar mounts. Any other way to defeat that? Subframe connectors or rear X brace?

Fronts are set to 0 rears are at about 5 clicks

 

[SUHleen]

So the rear sway really makes that big of a difference? I'm assuming I would want a thick one. Is there any other option? I feel like at that point I may as well add an air bag on the passenger side.

 

[lindertw]

cobra jet owners manual lists the following alignment specs as a starting point (I think they're close to factory specs):
Caster; 7.1°±0.75°
Camber; 0.75°±0.75°
Toe; -1/16" to -1/8" per side (measured @ center line of wheel flange, 15")

any pics or vid of your launch?

S&W makes a bolt in anti-roll bar - but there might be something else you can get to go with the 9" rear.

the newer CJ springs slam the car... does the S&W 9" rear have brackets to mount the LCA's in different holes? what's the orientation of your LCA's (body side higher than axle side, or the other way around?) post pics if you can

what is your pinion angle set to? did you get the UCA mount with your BMR adj UCA? if so, which hole is the UCA mounted in?

 

[rcm90]

So the rear sway really makes that big of a difference? I'm assuming I would want a thick one. Is there any other option? I feel like at that point I may as well add an air bag on the passenger side.

YES!! Especially with your power. You can either weld on brackets so the factory sway(or aftermarket bolt-in bar) can bolt up like stock. Or trz makes a nice ARB that bolts in, but it does require a little welding for shock tabs on the tubes. I have it and allows no body roll on the launch, but it's rough as fuck on the street and I usually disconnect a link when I'm cruising around to keep anything from being broken.

 

[SUHleen]

cobra jet owners manual lists the following alignment specs as a starting point (I think they're close to factory specs):
Caster; 7.1°±0.75°
Camber; 0.75°±0.75°
Toe; -1/16" to -1/8" per side (measured @ center line of wheel flange, 15")

any pics or vid of your launch?

S&W makes a bolt in anti-roll bar - but there might be something else you can get to go with the 9" rear.

the newer CJ springs slam the car... does the S&W 9" rear have brackets to mount the LCA's in different holes? what's the orientation of your LCA's (body side higher than axle side, or the other way around?) post pics if you can

what is your pinion angle set to? did you get the UCA mount with your BMR adj UCA? if so, which hole is the UCA mounted in?

I noticed the CJ springs slam the car, bumper rubs my ramps going on the trailer every time! I'm actually surprised, it sits lower than my previous "lowering" springs...

On the LCA's, it does have 3 spots to put bolt them on and I believe they are on the middle or lowest hole. I was told that the LCA's should be sitting parallel with the ground when the car is sitting on its weight and I believe that is how they currently are.

For the UCA, I forget which mount I bought but I believe it has multiple mounting points. It looks to currently be on the lowest one. Pinion angle is set to about -3.5.

I wouldn't mind buying the anti roll bar, but it seems like people are not having the same issue with the squatting that I am. Maybe because I no longer have the rear sway but seems like that anti roll bar kit would provide a lot better support than the sway bar.

I appreciate the info on alignment specs, did not know they provided all that!

YES!! Especially with your power. You can either weld on brackets so the factory sway(or aftermarket bolt-in bar) can bolt up like stock. Or trz makes a nice ARB that bolts in, but it does require a little welding for shock tabs on the tubes. I have it and allows no body roll on the launch, but it's rough as fuck on the street and I usually disconnect a link when I'm cruising around to keep anything from being broken.

I'm currently looking into the anti roll bar kit from S&W to go with my rear end. So much stuff piling up at once haha

 

[SUHleen]

Here is a video of my 11.3 run. Don't mind the reaction time or granny shifting. Was not worried about hitting the light and obviously was not no lift shifting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_Ow56zy0FQ

 

[Marble]

Your MPH tells me your car is getting some heat soak. I have a very similar set up like you and make 50 rwhp less and trap 128ish normally. Full weight with street wheels.

When I put an ice box in the trunk I gained .4 and 4 mph. Just saying...

You also might think about a 100-104 oct tune.

 

[SUHleen]

That's what I feel like, especially since my 1/8 mile mph is about 99 only gaining 25 mph in the second half seems weak. I just upgraded my radiator fan to hopefully help with the heat issue and plan on cutting a hole in my hood where the SC belt dented it. Also, I have an e85 tune going on once I get my new fuel setup on so that should make it run cooler. Lastly, I'm thinking about removing my ac system as I don't ever run it and it will free up front end weight plus create more airflow under the hood

 

[lindertw]

front strut settings? what RPM did you launch at? what size rear tire?

I downloaded the vid and watched it frame-by-frame in quicktime:

- very little rise/weight transfer from the front
- rear squats and the body appears to shift over to the drivers side, stays there well beyond the 60' clocks (almost like it's crabwalking)

I think that until you get a sway bar or anti-roll bar installed in the rear you will waste your time with shock settings or air bag in the rear.

Get a rear bar, try the front struts full loose, rear shocks at +7 clicks (skip the air bag), set pinion angle to -2 or -2.5 deg (if you have poly bushings) experiment with launch RPM and tire pressure.

have a look at this diagram and give me an idea of where your UCA/LCA's are positioned:

 

[SUHleen]

front strut settings? what RPM did you launch at? what size rear tire?

I downloaded the vid and watched it frame-by-frame in quicktime:

- very little rise/weight transfer from the front
- rear squats and the body appears to shift over to the drivers side, stays there well beyond the 60' clocks (almost like it's crabwalking)

I think that until you get a sway bar or anti-roll bar installed in the rear you will waste your time with shock settings or air bag in the rear.

Get a rear bar, try the front struts full loose, rear shocks at +7 clicks (skip the air bag), set pinion angle to -2 or -2.5 deg (if you have poly bushings) experiment with launch RPM and tire pressure.

have a look at this diagram and give me an idea of where your UCA/LCA's are positioned:

Just wanted to say in advance that I really appreciate the help!

The front struts and CJ springs I did not have installed with this run. They currently are at full loose. The runs I did afterwards were horrible (and I was super surprised) but noticed my UCA bushing was screwed and my cv joint on my driveshaft adapter was slinging grease and making noises so I feel like that was affecting a lot. Also, my alignment is a little bit off from doing all the suspension stuff.

Is the picture how my LCA and UCA should be oriented? I have some poly bushings and some rod bushings so I was told I should be between -3 and -4 deg?

Tire pressure I keep about 12-14 psi, seems to work the best. Launching, I have been experimenting all around. I currently don't have a 2 step or line lock and have a 6 speed so it has been difficult lol

 

[Marble]

That's what I feel like, especially since my 1/8 mile mph is about 99 only gaining 25 mph in the second half seems weak. I just upgraded my radiator fan to hopefully help with the heat issue and plan on cutting a hole in my hood where the SC belt dented it. Also, I have an e85 tune going on once I get my new fuel setup on so that should make it run cooler. Lastly, I'm thinking about removing my ac system as I don't ever run it and it will free up front end weight plus create more airflow under the hood

All of that will help for sure. I still have the stock crap from KB, but I added the big IC tank and run ice in it between runs. It was the best mod I have done since putting the KB on.

The E85 will be great for you. I do not have E85 available where I live so it's race fuel for me.

I'm in the middle of doing some add ons, cams, long tubes and a 4r70w. Also going to have 19-20 psi pulley put on for the track. Should be fun!!

 

[Marble]

That's what I feel like, especially since my 1/8 mile mph is about 99 only gaining 25 mph in the second half seems weak. I just upgraded my radiator fan to hopefully help with the heat issue and plan on cutting a hole in my hood where the SC belt dented it. Also, I have an e85 tune going on once I get my new fuel setup on so that should make it run cooler. Lastly, I'm thinking about removing my ac system as I don't ever run it and it will free up front end weight plus create more airflow under the hood

All of that will help for sure. I still have the stock crap from KB, but I added the big IC tank and run ice in it between runs. It was the best mod I have done since putting the KB on.

The E85 will be great for you. I do not have E85 available where I live so it's race fuel for me.

I'm in the middle of doing some add ons, cams, long tubes and a 4r70w. Also going to have 19-20 psi pulley put on for the track. Should be fun!!

 

[lindertw]

Is the picture how my LCA and UCA should be oriented? I have some poly bushings and some rod bushings so I was told I should be between -3 and -4 deg?

not necessarily how your UCA/LCA should be setup - every car reacts differently - it's just a graphic to give you an idea of where your approximate instant center (IC) would be if you drew imaginary lines between your mount points. You're going to have to experiment to see what your car likes.

I've read stock pinion angle is -3.5 deg, and if you're full rod-end you should be at -1. You are a mix, I would target something in the -2 to -2.5 range. Experiment and see what works (or put a camera under there and see how your rear reacts).

Tire pressure I keep about 12-14 psi, seems to work the best. Launching, I have been experimenting all around. I currently don't have a 2 step or line lock and have a 6 speed so it has been difficult lol

I run my ET street bias ply tires at 15psi cold, and launch off the limiter at 6500rpm (granted I'm way way less rwhp than you).

 

[SUHleen]

All of that will help for sure. I still have the stock crap from KB, but I added the big IC tank and run ice in it between runs. It was the best mod I have done since putting the KB on.

The E85 will be great for you. I do not have E85 available where I live so it's race fuel for me.

I'm in the middle of doing some add ons, cams, long tubes and a 4r70w. Also going to have 19-20 psi pulley put on for the track. Should be fun!!

Where did you mount your tank? Any pics? I have a small upgraded tank sitting next to the coolant resivoir but nothing crazy. Was thinking about doing an ice box in the trunk or moving the battery to the trunk and making something for that spot.

And how much boost are you running? Power level? You run a better et and 1/4 mile than me but sounds like I have more stuff upgraded. You will love the 4r70w but I want to keep mine a stick car unless I decide to go turbo

 

[SUHleen]

not necessarily how your UCA/LCA should be setup - every car reacts differently - it's just a graphic to give you an idea of where your approximate instant center (IC) would be if you drew imaginary lines between your mount points. You're going to have to experiment to see what your car likes.

I've read stock pinion angle is -3.5 deg, and if you're full rod-end you should be at -1. You are a mix, I would target something in the -2 to -2.5 range. Experiment and see what works (or put a camera under there and see how your rear reacts).



I run my ET street bias ply tires at 15psi cold, and launch off the limiter at 6500rpm (granted I'm way way less rwhp than you).

Ok cool, I will have to check it all and see. I'm currently having trouble finding a solid or even poly diff mount bushing for my 9". I called S&W and talked to two people and neither one was able to help me and tell me what kind of bushing it uses. I tried a solid one from UPR thinking it would work and that they just used an 8.8" but that did not work. Going to try and find a solid one for a 9" or just go to poly. The one that came on the rear end is rubber and its twisting.

 

[Marble]

Where did you mount your tank? Any pics? I have a small upgraded tank sitting next to the coolant resivoir but nothing crazy. Was thinking about doing an ice box in the trunk or moving the battery to the trunk and making something for that spot.

And how much boost are you running? Power level? You run a better et and 1/4 mile than me but sounds like I have more stuff upgraded. You will love the 4r70w but I want to keep mine a stick car unless I decide to go turbo

Same boost as you it's like 15.5 -16 and I make 560/560 on stock heads and cams and shorty headers. Hand built teksid block, I forget the compression. I typically run 11.1 ish at 126-127. On good prep days with a decent DA it goes to 11.0 at 128-129. The tranny is original and has been "broken" or not suited for racing for a few years.

I 60' around 1.49-1.55, LCA, stock upper, stock DS, relocation brackets in low hole, ME ET street 26.5x11, Mcloud RST, MSD 2 step. Full weight.

The ice box is an alluminum fuel cell from Summit. It's huge! 10 gallons and takes up a lot of space in the trunk. I have one pump that sucks out of the tank that matches the front pump sucking out of the HE. There are better tanks available that will actually fit into the spare tire spot, but my set up was rather cheap.

To really do ice properly I think you need something big enough to fill with enough ice to make a difference. A one or two gallon tank won't cut it. I have the big tank for the space to put as much ice as I want in it. It seems like 5 pounds of ice in water that is already cool does the trick.

So by the end of Oct my car should be done and it will have Comp 127350 cams, limiters, long tubes (porbably ARH) and the 4r70w with about a 4500 stall. I will drop pullies to whatever I can max the blower out at which is I think 19-20 psi and run 100-104 at the track. 10-12ish around town.

Oh and a new set of matching Weld big and littles.

i figured after all of that I will be deep into the 10s and will be able to bracket race again.

 

[Marble]

For shocks and springs I run the GT500 springs in the back, eibach pro in the front. Front setting for struts are full loose, rear full hard. Tires ~15psi.

I launch at anywhere between 3500-4500 depending on the track using the 2 step. I do not floor the 2 step like I did with the turbo but give it just a little more throttle after it engages.

Line locks are cheap and easy to install. Should be something on your list.