Am I ready for mods?

[13726548]

So about 3 weeks ago I did my first PDX event at Road Atlanta. I got to the point where I'm getting the tires to sing on certain corners, and I have a general idea of how hard to accelerate out of tight corners without having the rear end step out.
Besides the brake shimmy (completely stock brakes), I have no complaints about the way my car drove. It seemed easy to manipulate, and I'm not sure where the weak links are in the suspension.

By the time the tires (street tires) cooled down, I was able to peel pieces of rubber from them. I'm guessing this means they were "heat cycled." Is it safe to say I was driving 8tenths?
Feel free to put me back in my place if I'm getting over my head. If not, then help me pick out some suspension components so I can keep up with the B group cars.

 

[Vapour Trails]

Did you notice how much the car leans in corners (or dives/squats hard when on the brakes/accelerator), becomes unsettled during quick transitions and its tendency to understeer? Those are the weaknesses.

 

[13726548]

Did you notice how much the car leans in corners (or dives/squats hard when on the brakes/accelerator), becomes unsettled during quick transitions and its tendency to understeer? Those are the weaknesses.

I did notice the leaning and the unsettling. I figured the unsettling is just a natural byproduct of having a solid axle car.
And I noticed the understeer as well, but that was manageable.

 

[argonaut]

So about 3 weeks ago I did my first PDX event at Road Atlanta. I got to the point where I'm getting the tires to sing on certain corners, and I have a general idea of how hard to accelerate out of tight corners without having the rear end step out.
Besides the brake shimmy (completely stock brakes), I have no complaints about the way my car drove. It seemed easy to manipulate, and I'm not sure where the weak links are in the suspension.

By the time the tires (street tires) cooled down, I was able to peel pieces of rubber from them. I'm guessing this means they were "heat cycled." Is it safe to say I was driving 8tenths?
Feel free to put me back in my place if I'm getting over my head. If not, then help me pick out some suspension components so I can keep up with the B group cars.

Congrats on getting out there. I would love to drive Road Atlanta some day, looks like an awesome track.

When you say you "were able to peel pieces of rubber from them (the tires)", I'm assuming what you are talking about is that your tires picked up rubber off the track, kind of like it melted onto your tire. This is very common, happens every session and no, this is not "heat cycled". The term "heat cycled" applies mostly to racing tires, such as Hoosier A6, that start out very soft and grippy and then get progressively harder with each use, i.e. each session or cycle where the tire gets heated up and then cools when you come off track. Tires like these will often be tossed due to too many heat cycles (i.e. they get to hard and loose too much grip) rather than actually wearing out (cords showing).

When you ask about keeping up with Group B cars I'm assuming you are talking about the intermediate run group? The answer is - your car as it sits is capable of keeping up with most of them. It's all about the driver. Seat time, practice, good instruction are more important than any mod you can do to the car when you are first starting out (with the exception of safety mods - like track pads, DOT4 fluid, etc). As Vapor noted - sways, springs, dampers and tires are the bang for the buck mods but honestly, unless you have money for both parts and seat time, the later is where your cash should be spent.

Have fun out there!

 

[Vapour Trails]

I did notice the leaning and the unsettling. I figured the unsettling is just a natural byproduct of having a solid axle car.

I think it's really that the OEM dampers are not very good, which is to be expected.

As to if you are really for mods, you are ready for anything you want and can afford.

If you are limited in how much you can spend, practice would be the best thing to spend it on. If not, do both.

 

[VTXFrank]

I'd be looking at springs and struts/shocks and an adjustable PHB. Your tendency to step out in corners will be reduced so you can exit faster. Also, the car isn't as much work when you aren't fighting the body roll.

Talk to Sam Strano. He's one of our vendors and is a 7 time SCCA champ. If anyone here knows what you can do to improve your odds in the next class, it will be Sam.

 

[13726548]

Congrats on getting out there. I would love to drive Road Atlanta some day, looks like an awesome track.

When you ask about keeping up with Group B cars I'm assuming you are talking about the intermediate run group? The answer is - your car as it sits is capable of keeping up with most of them. It's all about the driver. Seat time, practice, good instruction are more important than any mod you can do to the car when you are first starting out (with the exception of safety mods - like track pads, DOT4 fluid, etc). As Vapor noted - sways, springs, dampers and tires are the bang for the buck mods but honestly, unless you have money for both parts and seat time, the later is where your cash should be spent.

Have fun out there!

Yes, Road Atlanta was quite an experience. To think that cars from the ALMS, and the Ferrari 360 challenge drove on the same surface made things seem unreal.

I'll keep that tire information in mind.

And yes, the SCCA PDX is divided into three groups, A through C, A being the most advanced. Group B had everything from Porsche 944s to Scion TCs.

I think it's really that the OEM dampers are not very good, which is to be expected.

As to if you are really for mods, you are ready for anything you want and can afford.

If you are limited in how much you can spend, practice would be the best thing to spend it on. If not, do both.

I did notice the track had some corners that were bumpy, and the stock dampers seemed to absorb the bumps pretty well.
As far as what mods I want, that's where the problems lies because I don't know what to get. I guess aftermarket dampers would be a good starting point.

I'd be looking at springs and struts/shocks and an adjustable PHB. Your tendency to step out in corners will be reduced so you can exit faster. Also, the car isn't as much work when you aren't fighting the body roll.

Talk to Sam Strano. He's one of our vendors and is a 7 time SCCA champ. If anyone here knows what you can do to improve your odds in the next class, it will be Sam.

I already do have an adjustable PHB and springs, so it looks like dampers are next on the list.

Thanks everyone for your input.

 

[Sky Render]

As far as what mods I want, that's where the problems lies because I don't know what to get. I guess aftermarket dampers would be a good starting point.

If you don't know what mods your car needs, you need more seat time. Don't modify the car without a clear goal or just to say you have a modified car.

Sent from my DROID2 Global using tapa-whatzit-thing

 

[Swoope]

i agree,
get a couple of events in then go from there. depending on tire you have and if you have over used it. right now you will learn more with less.

i would do mods in this order.
pads
shocks
lots more seat time
springs
sways

i did not do it this way. learn from my mistakes!

beers

 

[13726548]

i agree,
get a couple of events in then go from there. depending on tire you have and if you have over used it. right now you will learn more with less.

i would do mods in this order.
pads
shocks
lots more seat time
springs
sways

i did not do it this way. learn from my mistakes!

beers

The car already has springs so I kinda messed that order up. But I'll go ahead and upgrade the pads and go from there.

 

[JpMotorSport]

What kind of springs do you have? Would you say they improved the 'floaty' stock feeling enough?

 

[snoxracer183]

The car I bought had the Ford Racing springs on it with stock shocks/struts. I feel that it rides and handles terrible. The springs dont match the struts at all and I get a bad bouncy feeling in the car over bumps. I'm almost tempted to put the stock springs back on until I buy some aftermarket struts/shocks to match the springs.

 

[13726548]

What kind of springs do you have? Would you say they improved the 'floaty' stock feeling enough?

FRPP K springs. And no they did not improve the floaty feeling, especially not on the higher speed corners and bumps. Learn from my mistake and do not buy progressive rate springs.

Having said this maybe I do know what mods I need to get..

 

[Vapour Trails]

If you don't know what mods your car needs, you need more seat time. Don't modify the car without a clear goal or just to say you have a modified car.

It's hard to see how someone could go wrong with replacing the OEM shocks/struts and springs with sensible aftermarket replacements. It's well documented that the springs are way soft and the dampers are junk.

FRPP K springs. And no they did not improve the floaty feeling, especially not on the higher speed corners and bumps. Learn from my mistake and do not buy progressive rate springs.

Having said this maybe I do know what mods I need to get..

Again, that's mosty the OEM dampers. Get some tokico d-spec, or better, Koni shocks. No one has ever regretted it.

 

[Sky Render]

It's hard to see how someone could go wrong with replacing the OEM shocks/struts and springs with sensible aftermarket replacements. It's well documented that the springs are way soft and the dampers are junk.

Well I would definitely agree with you there. I was more responding to the "I don't know what to modify so what should I blow money on" mentality that some people have when it comes to making cars handle better.

At least the OP is asking for advice instead of just buying a bunch of crap and bolting it onto his car.

A lot of people like the combination of adjustable Konis and Steeda sport springs. I'm torn between installing that on my car or saving up money and going straight for KW coilovers.

 

[ArizonaGT]

You probably just need a better set of pads and some DOT4 fluid like ATE typ200 or Superblue.

Don't spend money on springs/coilovers/all that crap until you really get a handle on how to drive. That could take a long time.

 

[Sam Strano]

I know you all think I don't agree with that because I sell parts. But the truth is better parts also make the car behave better on the street too, including ride and stability too.

I guess you could take the position that if you can ride the biggest baddest bull in the rodeo first then that's best. I think it's a little silly myself. I'd stay basic, I wouldn't go spending $5k on the suspension just because. But a good set of shocks, some springs and bars will make the car a lot more enjoyable to drive.

 

[Ch4r1ie]

I know you all think I don't agree with that because I sell parts. But the truth is better parts also make the car behave better on the street too, including ride and stability too.

I guess you could take the position that if you can ride the biggest baddest bull in the rodeo first then that's best. I think it's a little silly myself. I'd stay basic, I wouldn't go spending $5k on the suspension just because. But a good set of shocks, some springs and bars will make the car a lot more enjoyable to drive.

I don't believe anyone has ever thought that of you mate, nor would they. You always take the time to give great advice and explain, where necessary, the logic behind your recommendations, which speaks volumes about your professionalism and desire to deliver what is right to your customers.

 

[Vapour Trails]

I know you all think I don't agree with that because I sell parts. But the truth is better parts also make the car behave better on the street too, including ride and stability too.

I guess you could take the position that if you can ride the biggest baddest bull in the rodeo first then that's best. I think it's a little silly myself. I'd stay basic, I wouldn't go spending $5k on the suspension just because. But a good set of shocks, some springs and bars will make the car a lot more enjoyable to drive.

I also get a little tired of the attitude that until you are superstar behind the wheel changing anything is verboten. Sure, calling up griggs after your first HPDE is going overboard, but spending $1000 making some sensible modifications to improve what we already know is weak is not.

I'd like to know what you can learn on stock springs that you can't after 1.2" drop, or what you can learn on OEM shocks that you can't on Konis?

But what do I know, I use R-comps to cover up my driving mistakes.

 

[snoxracer183]

^^^ I agree. If you make yore capable of going faster, do it. You still have to learn to make it go that much faster...