Anybody good at diagnosing data logs??

[Seer]

Not saying he is it isn't having an issue but that statement is false.

a CEL trips because a parameter goes out of specification. I'm friendly with the OP, but between his logs, and video, I feel this is placebo.

 

[Seer]

Ahhh, I see... that's what the tuner meant. Not much info stored then, so how does Ford track what is a "legitimate tune" (FRPP S/C kit) as opposed to an aftermarket tune? Just by internal records?

My thinking here is Ford has no way of knowing whether or not the "performance tune" was destructive to the engine. The OP did say he was supercharged, so could a bad tune have done some mechanical damage that reverting back to the stock tune won't fix? I'm thinking mild detonation damage to the pistons/rings...

To the OP: I watched the posted video several times - my exhaust sounds exactly the same as yours from the rear, but my engine does not stumble or nearly stall like what you described. I had one other thought after reading all this - have you checked system voltage @ idle?

The FRPP tune does in fact violate the Ford factory warranty. FRPP would then pick up the warranty. They are not two in the same companies. If the Ford dealer is not a FRPP dealer, you are out of luck.

Another caveat to this is the FRPP dealer must install the tune and have a work order present in the Ford system stating this for the warranty to be valid.

It would look odd bringing in a car with 5000 miles on it with only a handful of key cycles since the last pcm mod date. This is how Ford catches it.

 

[Sprayer84]

No it isn't.

Do you think every issue a vehicle has will trigger a check engine light? Because you are wrong. I'm a professional mechanic and I see drivability issues all the time that never trigger a light

 

[BruceH]

Ahhh, I see... that's what the tuner meant. Not much info stored then, so how does Ford track what is a "legitimate tune" (FRPP S/C kit) as opposed to an aftermarket tune? Just by internal records?

My thinking here is Ford has no way of knowing whether or not the "performance tune" was destructive to the engine. The OP did say he was supercharged, so could a bad tune have done some mechanical damage that reverting back to the stock tune won't fix? I'm thinking mild detonation damage to the pistons/rings...

To the OP: I watched the posted video several times - my exhaust sounds exactly the same as yours from the rear, but my engine does not stumble or nearly stall like what you described. I had one other thought after reading all this - have you checked system voltage @ idle?

I've had Ford Racing tunes before. You can't get the tune until the registration form is filled out with a vin. I'd think they would put that in oasis along with any dealer reflashes.

Ford has denied 5.0 warranty work based on a reflash in the past. It would be pretty hard to have broken ring lands, evidence of a reflash, and not think it was because of the tune. When the 5.0 first came out tooners were adding as much spark advance as a 3v has. This resulted in detonation and engine failure. Ford caught on pretty quick when a number of 5.0 motors were failing. Some people really thought it would be impossible to hurt an na motor with a tune and expected Ford to repair it for free. They actually got mad that Ford wouldn't fix their screw up. It was a big deal on this forum at the time and iirc Ford now automatically voids the powertrain warranty if an aftermarket tune has ever been on the car. We have several members who are Ford employees, maybe they can confirm it.

Like you I wonder if there is some damage that is slowly making itself known like broken ringlands. The op would still be screwed because he has installed a tune and would have no way of knowing what tune caused a problem.

Hopefully it's just the way the car idles because of a tolerance stack up somewhere.

 

[wbt]

Do you think every issue a vehicle has will trigger a check engine light? Because you are wrong. I'm a professional mechanic and I see drivability issues all the time that never trigger a light

Lol. Quite condescending. Because you are a professional mechanic does that mean you know more than I do? How would you have any idea? In fact, you have no idea who I am, what I know or what I do for a living.

1. Look at the symptoms the OP has described.
2. Do you know how OBD-II systems work specifically around emissions and mis-fires? I suggest reading this: http://www.underhoodservice.com/issue/article.aspx?contentid=71962

I believe if the OP was experiencing a misfire condition, as he believes, a CEL would be triggered.

 

[ochoblanco]

Lol. Quite condescending. Because you are a professional mechanic does that mean you know more than I do? How would you have any idea? In fact, you have no idea who I am, what I know or what I do for a living.

1. Look at the symptoms the OP has described.
2. Do you know how OBD-II systems work specifically around emissions and mis-fires? I suggest reading this: http://www.underhoodservice.com/issue/article.aspx?contentid=71962

I believe if the OP was experiencing a misfire condition, as he believes, a CEL would be triggered.

I think all he was saying that your initial comment "a CEL will always be triggered" is something he disagrees with. Nothing "always" happens so that statement is false.

But I do agree that in this case the OP should have a CEL pop up if he is experiencing a misfire at idle.

 

[Sprayer84]

I think all he was saying that your initial comment "a CEL will always be triggered" is something he disagrees with. Nothing "always" happens so that statement is false.

But I do agree that in this case the OP should have a CEL pop up if he is experiencing a misfire at idle.

Exactly

 

[slvr08gt]

Removed the steeda motor mounts and installed the stock mounts this morning.

No change other then it shakes a little less than it did before.

Still shakes and studders along with the occasional border line stall out. Still idles like crap.

 

[lee12609]

Can you see the rpm drop on the logs?

 

[slvr08gt]

Can you see the rpm drop on the logs?

Yes

 

[Seer]

Yes

Umm... no. Other than the normal rpm fluctuations.

 

[slvr08gt]

Umm... no. Other than the normal rpm fluctuations.

Didn't really think 80-90 rpm dips were normal.

Only thing I can say is, if the car idled like this the day I bought it or before I threw the hellion kit on, I would have noticed it also. Like I've said before, my other 5.0's had the rare occasional studder when idling but nothing as consistent and repetitive as mine is doing now.

At this point it's pretty much pointless to continue to look for help on diagnosing my issue through this thread. My data logs don't show anything so no one can actually see or feel the way my car idles/studders consistently like I can.

All advice/suggestions up to this point was GREATLY appreciated and couldn't have asked for a better group of folks to help. The car will eventually get traded as soon as I hit the 6 month mark, since I bought it using the A plan.

Nick

 

[Seer]

Didn't really think 80-90 rpm dips were normal.

Only thing I can say is, if the car idled like this the day I bought it or before I threw the hellion kit on, I would have noticed it also. Like I've said before, my other 5.0's had the rare occasional studder when idling but nothing as consistent and repetitive as mine is doing now.

At this point it's pretty much pointless to continue to look for help on diagnosing my issue through this thread. My data logs don't show anything so no one can actually see or feel the way my car idles/studders consistently like I can.

All advice/suggestions up to this point was GREATLY appreciated and couldn't have asked for a better group of folks to help. The car will eventually get traded as soon as I hit the 6 month mark, since I bought it using the A plan.

Nick

I don't recall your rpm's fluctuating that much. It looked like there was a 40rpm span.

 

[lee12609]

even 80-90 rpm is fine in my opinion.

a misfire even a slight one would cause a larger drop.

its possible you have an issue thats just not bad enough to catch yet.

 

[slvr08gt]

even 80-90 rpm is fine in my opinion.

a misfire even a slight one would cause a larger drop.

its possible you have an issue thats just not bad enough to catch yet.

I believe this is possible also. From what WBT says, thats impossible though.

 

[lee12609]

i'm a driveability tech, 50+ hours a week, for a living, and i will tell WBT that atleast half the cars i look at dont have a light on.

 

[wbt]

i'm a driveability tech, 50+ hours a week, for a living, and i will tell WBT that atleast half the cars i look at dont have a light on.

Good for you. I can tell you from experience with these cars that if there is a miss, it will throw a CEL.

 

[lee12609]

the crank sensor monitors misfire by fluctuations in RPM. are you saying all misfires will cause a large enough fluctuation in rpm to get picked up as a misfire?

i have absolutely NO experience with the 5.0s, so something could be different, but i'd be willing to bet not EVERY misfire will set a light.

 

[Seer]

the crank sensor monitors misfire by fluctuations in RPM. are you saying all misfires will cause a large enough fluctuation in rpm to get picked up as a misfire?

i have absolutely NO experience with the 5.0s, so something could be different, but i'd be willing to bet not EVERY misfire will set a light.

My GT500 (which uses the same pcm as the 5.0) sometimes sets off a misfire code when using my wotbox when doing a wot shift even for just a few seconds.

So yes, if the misfire is large enough to trip the cel, it will throw a code.

These aren't early 90s pcms, the motorola copperhead is fairly advanced and performs many calculations per second.

 

[lee12609]

right, thats why i asked if he thought every misfire would cause a large enough change in RPM to dictate a misfire CODE.

i work on a TON of GM trucks/suv's with the LS motors. notorious for vacuum leaks at the intake gaskets, and will show constant misfires at idle on any scanner, but will never set a code. thats all i'm saying is there is always instances of problems that dont set a code, even misfires. however that might not be true with the 5.0 as i have no experience with it yet.

i'm not arguing that his car is misfiring or not, i'm simply saying no code doesnt mean no problem on ANY vehicle.