ati super damper prevents broken oil pump?

[rojizostang]

Well I've read through a lot of the threads about broken oil pump gears, and I haven't been able to pick up on whether any cars (or trucks) running the ATI super dampers have broken any stock oil pump gears. I've read about Innovator's dampers and broken gears, but don't recall ATI dampers and a set of broken gears.

I've been tossing around the idea of adding an ATI damper, since Roush charging my F150. I've also considered the billet oil pump gears, but would like to avoid that expense if possible, hence the question.

If you know, point me to the thread or furnish the info here, if you don't mind.

I'm really not looking for opinions here, I'm specifically asking about ati dampers and stock gears, and perhaps with pd blowers would be even more helpful

Mostly I would be interested in coyote motors, however I understand it's a ford modular problem in general

thanks in advance

 

[JeremyH]

My engine builder said the most overlooked thing when trying to get more power out of the motor is a quality damper. I really like the ATI, no complaints, as for the data of that mixed with broken opg's not sure I have heard of anything trying to link it. I do have billet oil pump gears as well btw.

 

[eighty6gt]

I bought a super damper and am going to run a 2013 GT500 oil pump with the GT500 spring and the factory gears.

Look out!

 

[rojizostang]

FWIW, I just got off the phone with the guys from ATI, and they're telling me I won't find any instances of Ford mod motors running their damper and breaking stock opg's.

Almost sounds to good to be true.

 

[weather man]

FWIW, I just got off the phone with the guys from ATI, and they're telling me I won't find any instances of Ford mod motors running their damper and breaking stock opg's.

Almost sounds to good to be true.

People generally don't spend the coin for that damper unless it is going on some expensive parts. Who would risk those parts with a stock oil pump?

 

[rojizostang]

People generally don't spend the coin for that damper unless it is going on some expensive parts. Who would risk those parts with a stock damper?

well a new motor would certainly be expensive, and since the only thing on the truck that isn't stock is the blower, it seems that a quality damper could be just the ticket to avoid the opg nightmare, hopefully.

definitely less expensive to add a good damper than to pull timing chains and covers and go for billet gears. it's why i'm searching for documented cases of broken stock opg's using ati super dampers.

 

[weather man]

well a new motor would certainly be expensive, and since the only thing on the truck that isn't stock is the blower, it seems that a quality damper could be just the ticket to avoid the opg nightmare, hopefully.

definitely less expensive to add a good damper than to pull timing chains and covers and go for billet gears. it's why i'm searching for documented cases of broken stock opg's using ati super dampers.

Brain fart, meant oil pump on the end of my sentence.

 

[rojizostang]

I went ahead and bought this

don't pay attention to the picture....that's the race version without the ac belt...they just have the pictures mixed up. the one I bought has the double pulley

 

[eighty6gt]

Man, I wish I had known they sold blems, would have saved hundreds.

Paid retail for mine, was $700 here in my dollars.

I also upgraded so that the blower belt drive was a little more robust. You have a bolted connection between the inner and outer shells (as far as I can determine) with a flying weight inside, as opposed to just elastomer carrying the belt loads.

 

[rojizostang]

I don't really to plan to beat on the truck relentlessly, but I would like to go out for a few test and tunes for the fun of it. Seems like a fairly small price to pay to improve the odds of the motor living for a while.

 

[travelers]

When I installed my whipple 2.3 I installed a Ford Racing oil pump and ATI damper. Easy install with a ARP bolt. We have one on our race car that turns 9600. I do like the quality.

 

[skwerl]

Be aware of the belt tensioner travel range, and size your belt/pulleys so the tensioner is near the middle of the travel range at rest. If your belt is too tight then the shock loads from on/off throttle can break your oil pump gears. Similar to hitting the end of your crankshaft with a sledgehammer.

 

[rojizostang]

Be aware of the belt tensioner travel range, and size your belt/pulleys so the tensioner is near the middle of the travel range at rest. If your belt is too tight then the shock loads from on/off throttle can break your oil pump gears. Similar to hitting the end of your crankshaft with a sledgehammer.

I will look at it during the damper install, thanks.

 

[eighty6gt]

Be aware of the belt tensioner travel range, and size your belt/pulleys so the tensioner is near the middle of the travel range at rest. If your belt is too tight then the shock loads from on/off throttle can break your oil pump gears. Similar to hitting the end of your crankshaft with a sledgehammer.

Where did this anecdote come from?

 

[dsmith658]

Be aware of the belt tensioner travel range, and size your belt/pulleys so the tensioner is near the middle of the travel range at rest. If your belt is too tight then the shock loads from on/off throttle can break your oil pump gears. Similar to hitting the end of your crankshaft with a sledgehammer.

My tensioner is past center so this was a good nugget of info for me...

 

[eighty6gt]

Furthermore to what I asked, I'm not doubting that some forces may be propagated by the belt system upon a sudden engine deceleration - that seen when lifting or hitting the rev limiter. You'd see a braking force on the belt at the crank, while the accessories and belt itself have momentum. I'd guess the passenger side would initially see the tensioner load go way up as the belt suddenly appears much tighter and slack is fed on to the driver's side by the blower, etc. Then probably some hysteresis, the belt may even slip a bit across the crank pulley and away you go. As far as the intensity of these forces, you are probably limited to whatever the tensioner can provide if it takes a run at the slack belt * ~2. I'm not sure this is enough to cause transitional bending in the crank snout sufficient to cause fatigue over time, especially since there's constant cyclic loading during operation - the crank rotates and is pulled sideways.

It feels bad, it sounds bad, but I think you're more likely to have belt issues banging the limiter or getting out of it. It's possible the inertia in the oil pump gears themselves is a problem, as during sudden cycling you would see the outer ring smacking the inner one, but still, it's not very heavy, and is damped by oil.

So.. run the tensioner within it's range so the system works as well as possible, but I wouldn't blame the FEAD for the broken gears.

Interesting side reading, especially about those lash adjusters:
http://www.enginelabs.com/news/a-failure-analysis-of-one-gt500s-5-8-liter-trinity-engine/

 

[Department Of Boost]

Be aware of the belt tensioner travel range, and size your belt/pulleys so the tensioner is near the middle of the travel range at rest. If your belt is too tight then the shock loads from on/off throttle can break your oil pump gears. Similar to hitting the end of your crankshaft with a sledgehammer.

Absolutely this^^^^^^

Good info here:

http://departmentofboost.com/tech_instructions/belt_tensioner_tech.htm

 

[Sky Render]

I really wish Fluid Damper made dampers for the Coyote. They make them for the 4.6 and 5.4, and those things are sweet.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 using Tapatalk

 

[rojizostang]

Absolutely this^^^^^^

Good info here:

http://departmentofboost.com/tech_instructions/belt_tensioner_tech.htm

I pretty much read all that stuff, so the specific data I'm hunting for is those instances where stock opg's broke while using an ati super damper.

I'm certainly not propagating any kind of theory, I was only trying to make a decision as to how much work I needed to do to protect the opg's. Hopefully the data, or lack of data rather concerning broken opg's with ati super dampers would make my decision for me

 

[wbt]

People generally don't spend the coin for that damper unless it is going on some expensive parts. Who would risk those parts with a stock oil pump?

I put one on my car for nothing more than to settle the harmonics. Spinning 7,800+, 100+ passes later and still going strong.

Now do I think it is a solution to broken oil pump gears? No. The minute you stick a supercharger on the motor and hit the limiter all bets are off regardless of what is stuck on the end of the crankshaft.