Clunking Sound While Shifting After Installing BMR UCA & Adj. LCA's!

Mattr89

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The proper way to achieve your pinion angle setting is to add the angles.

Here is why: (I will make this extremely easy, or try....)

If you have a 0 degree relation, and your drive shaft angle is -2.....then your pinion angle would need to be +2, correct?

If yours isn't -2.....then let's say it is -4. In order to achieve a 0 degree angle, you would need +4 on the pinion flange.

This means, if the drive shaft angle is down -4, the pinion has to be "up" +4 to achieve a "straight line." Correct?

NOW, being that we know how that works....let's do some math.

-2 + (+2) = 0
-4 + (+4) = 0

If you subtract:

-2 - (+2) = -4
-4 - (+4) = -8

If this is hard to understand, see image:

PinionAngleZeroDegree.jpg


Now, the goal is to ensure there is roughly a 0 degree relation, when under load. That does not necessarily mean everything has to be aligned straight....it means the ANGLES have to be on the same PLANE, and similar. (Parallel)

See below:

pinionangles.jpg



The absolute easiest way to achieve the proper pinion angle setting is to use an electronic/digital angle finder that has the feature to "ZERO" it out.

Place angle finder on driveshaft, zero it out, place angle on pinion....and adjust it to your negative setting. Now of course, you will need to re-check both angles before coming to your final pinion angle.


I hope some of you find this useful.

Mine were both in the negative as I took the reading from the passenger side on ramps. With the rear end up high they won't be accurate, the only thing of concern is the difference.

One pinion flange was -5 an the driveshaft was -3.5.

That means a 1.5 degree difference.

After taking the vehicle of the rear ramps the pinion flange now reads -1.5 and the driveshaft now reads 0.

Giving me a pinion angle of -1.5. Because 1.5 minus 0 is -1.5, also 0 minis -1.5 is -1.5.

Also what do you mean zero out the driveshaft? It can't be adjusted by itselft only with the lca's.
 

BMR Tech

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That is a crazy phenomenon right there. You lowered the car and the drive shaft somehow raised up.

The drawing I made should explain everything you need to know. If the drivetrain and pinion are 0 degree....meaning IN A STRAIGHT LINE or on a STRAIGHT plane, the only possible option is for the driveshaft and pinion to be opposite angles.

If what I made bold is true, then it is simple. +4 - (-4) = 8 / +4 + (-4) = 0


I can understand why people would be confused by it.

Using your method, -4 on both pinion and driveshaft would make a 0 degree for pinion angle....if you think that is correct then I don't know what to say further.

If you are unaware of why I keep referring to zero....that is because that is the goal when under acceleration.
 

Mattr89

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That is a crazy phenomenon right there. You lowered the car and the drive shaft somehow raised up.

The drawing I made should explain everything you need to know. If the drivetrain and pinion are 0 degree....meaning IN A STRAIGHT LINE or on a STRAIGHT plane, the only possible option is for the driveshaft and pinion to be opposite angles.

If what I made bold is true, then it is simple. +4 - (-4) = 8 / +4 + (-4) = 0


I can understand why people would be confused by it.

Using your method, -4 on both pinion and driveshaft would make a 0 degree for pinion angle....if you think that is correct then I don't know what to say further.

If you are unaware of why I keep referring to zero....that is because that is the goal when under acceleration.

i understand what you are saying.

I just checked my car on the ground outside on my driveway.

pinion flange (-1.5 degrees) measure on the passenger side, angle finder gauge facing to the passenger side.

drivshaft (0 degrees) measured facing the passenger side, right by the where it connects to the pinion.

thats a -1.5 angle right?



now i measure the driver side, angle finder facing the drivers side.

pinion flange (+1.5 degree)

driveshaft (0 degrees)


either way i do it, the driveshaft is 0 degrees, and the "pinion flange" is facing 1.5 degrees DOWN towards the ground.

Under load the pinion flange will go slightly forward and put some upward stress, give me room to achieve the 0 degrees without binding.

does this look proper and in good standing?
 

nasty281

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Im in the same situation..I don't know what to do now. I just bought the umi Anti clunk spacers and the car still clunks over bumps
 

Mattr89

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Im in the same situation..I don't know what to do now. I just bought the umi Anti clunk spacers and the car still clunks over bumps

if you installed the spacers with the arm and mount off the car, and torqued to 130 ft lbs.

then re-installed the mount, torqued to spec, and then the arm, torqued to spec. the clunk isnt coming from there.

It means your pinion angle is off, cause driveshaft binding noises and ambient sound.
 

nasty281

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What is usually the ideal pinion angle for our cars or does vary for every car. I'm not exactly sure how to measure it. What kinda tools would I need?
 

Mattr89

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What is usually the ideal pinion angle for our cars or does vary for every car. I'm not exactly sure how to measure it. What kinda tools would I need?

do you have a 2 piece driveshaft? if you do, than the front section never moves, only the rear section. As the front part of a two piece driveshaft moves with the frame, so its always the same.

You need a magnetic angle finder. Get them at lowes 8 dollars each. Get 2

Place one on your pinion flange, make sure the magnet is on the bigger part and flat, thats the part closest to the rear axle. Make sure your angle finder is paralel with the lip on the bottom of the pumpking and level.

Remember that angle. Place your other angle finder on the driveshaft, about a half inch forward in front of the CV joint, as close back towards the CV joint as possible, make sure its parallel with the floor and in the center of the axle.

take the number from the driveshaft and subtract it from the pinion flange number. adjust your LCA's or UCA until the desired goal is reached.

I say go for -1.5 degrees. Dont get all caught up in the (-/+) if you are measuring from the driver side it will read positive, and if you read the passenger side it will read negative.

the point is, as long as its 1.5 degrees pointing towards the ground, this prevents a 0 degree binding under load.

you can NOT do this adjustment on jack stands, you must do it with the car fully loaded on the ground, or ramps.


**Keep in mind, with the rear on ramps, and the front on the ground, the angle of the pinion flange and driveshaft will be slightly different, both readings will be negative.

DO NOT get discourage from this, its the DIFFERENCE your interested in!

example, this is my readings. with the rear on ramps expect both your angles to dip more into the negative by about 3 degrees.

pinion flange= -5 degrees, driveshaft = -3.5 degrees. there is a "1.5" degree difference.

NOW once i lowered the car here were my readings.

pinion flange = -1.5 degrees, driveshaft = 0 degrees. again, that gives me a -1.5 degree pinion.


So,

In short, the difference is all that matters. Once the car goes back down, then all readings will go back.

Follow?
 

nasty281

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Thanks I appreciate the insight. I follow I just feel unsure about it being pinion angle. It doesnt sound like drive train. But ill try it out its a cheap fix if that's what it is
 

Makdaddy

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Not sure if anyone has figured all of this out.
but here is my experience

Just installed
Eibach Pro damper system on Sportlines
Eibach Sway bars
UMI UCA
UMI Spacer fillers for factory top mount
UMI LCA extensions
Matco LCA

After the alignment and pinion adjustment ( pinion flange= 0 drive shaft = -2) I have a clunking when I shift.

here is what we think is happening
The mounting bracket for the UCA is hitting the pumpkin
here is a pic

looks to be really close to the nipple at the top of the pumpkin
We are debating about grinding that nipple off.
Or I need to find a UCA with a deeper offset (ears) for the mount to the pumpkin mount side

Thoughts?

ucav.jpg

Shot at 2012-07-14
 
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UMI Sales

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Good morning.

Our test car didn't have that nipple on there. We have had some cars which required grinding that nipple off. It doesn't seem to hurt anything for it not to be there and I'm not sure what purpose it serves (perhaps a casting aid or something).

As you have noticed, that gap closes up on a lowered car.

Can you give that a try and see how the clearance looks?

thanks

ramey
 

BMR Tech

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Makdaddy, we have a provision for this, as you can see in our design.

UTCA020_large.jpg


If you do not feel like grinding, let me know!
 

Makdaddy

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Good morning.

Our test car didn't have that nipple on there. We have had some cars which required grinding that nipple off. It doesn't seem to hurt anything for it not to be there and I'm not sure what purpose it serves (perhaps a casting aid or something).

As you have noticed, that gap closes up on a lowered car.

Can you give that a try and see how the clearance looks?

thanks

ramey

Ramey
Thanks for the quick response
We have debated about grinding the nipple off
I am still a little concerned about clearance
needless to say Im not so sure just the nipple trimming will resolve the issue
But We may give that a try and see what happens
Ill let you know what we find
 

Makdaddy

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Makdaddy, we have a provision for this, as you can see in our design.

UTCA020_large.jpg


If you do not feel like grinding, let me know!

Kelly
I actually sent you an e mail over the weekend about a resolution.
Yes your UCA seems to be a fix.
I hate throwing good money after Bad .
But I also hate the clunking.

So if your UCA and a new mount will correct this , then I may be in.
I need a day to think about it
Thanks
 

UMI Sales

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As you can see from BMR's photo (nice piece by the way, Kelly) that type of double shear mount can be a little more slim than we make ours. If tuning on the diff housing doesn't net you enough clearance you could relieve a bit from the arm as well.
 

Makdaddy

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As you can see from BMR's photo (nice piece by the way, Kelly) that type of double shear mount can be a little more slim than we make ours. If tuning on the diff housing doesn't net you enough clearance you could relieve a bit from the arm as well.


Thanks Ramey
 

KillrStang

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Slap some sound detonating in the trunk and call it good! JK mine has some major clunkage as well just need some time to get under there and start tightening some bolts and re adjust my uca
 

mfergel

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Damn, if that's the issue. I was looking under mine this weekend. Was getting ready to put in the UMI spacers but didn't have the tools. I'll need to take a look again and see if mine is possibly running into the same issue then. Like you, I hate to throw out good money. Was thinking of getting an aftermarket upper mount as well but wondering if it would have similar issues. An adjustable upper mount would sure help in being able to change my pinion angle.
 

stri8ed

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new guy here, but I had the same problem until yesterday. A month or so ago I had Spohn Del Sphere LCAs installed. Clunk clunk clunk. And the gear whine was crazy. everytime I shifted or hit the gas and the car rocked back it clunked hard enough to feel. I pulled those $300 LCAs off yesterday and put J&M $99 ones on. Soooo much quieter, no clunk and no gear whine and tires are still planted just fine. Spherical ends make noise and clunk. thats the only determination I have come up with.
 

Makdaddy

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new guy here, but I had the same problem until yesterday. A month or so ago I had Spohn Del Sphere LCAs installed. Clunk clunk clunk. And the gear whine was crazy. everytime I shifted or hit the gas and the car rocked back it clunked hard enough to feel. I pulled those $300 LCAs off yesterday and put J&M $99 ones on. Soooo much quieter, no clunk and no gear whine and tires are still planted just fine. Spherical ends make noise and clunk. thats the only determination I have come up with.


Cool

Wish you had pics off both types
may help explain to new guys why the clunk happens
Glad you figured your issue out
I will be installing the new BMR UCA and Upper mount next week
Hope that resolves my issues
 
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