Clutch not disengaging

NA-Stang

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Or Engaging? I always mess that up.

Anyway, here is what happened, I hope someone can help.

Let me preface this with I have a blowfish racing bracket on the car.

2013 Mustang GT. Manual Transmission.

I was at the track last night. first run was fine. car shifted smooth. Not as smooth as my 2005 GT, but it was ok.

third run, the car crept up at the line, and turned off the top staging lights. I dismissed it, thinking I just didn't have the clutch deperessed far enough, or something.

fourth run, same thing. This time, the car would not shift into third. Clutch was fully depressed, and I was just trying to get it into gear, and it just kept grinding. would not go in until the rpms came down. This happened for the next 3 runs as well.

Let the car cool, and drove it home. Of course I had to try it out again. I didn't shift at 7K like I was, but I did bring it up to atleast 5 - 5.5K. And it shifted smooth.

So, Im not sure what is going on. Clutch isn't slipping, it just isn't disengaging? Seems as if it did it while under race conditions, maybe while hot?

What is the problem? Do these hydraulic clutches have any adjustment? If not, what needs replaced/upgraded?

Please give me some insight.
 

Redline727

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I have been trying to look into something like this as well. I don't track my car or have quite the issue you have had. I don't DD my car but when I take it out I enjoy it and drive pretty spiritedly. I notice the longer I drive it like that my pedal seems to diminish some. So to me I contribute that to hot fluid and a ballooning clutch line. I have read people reporting issues like mine, and issues like you have, all the way up to the pedal getting stuck to the floor. Some people recommend changing fluid and going to a SS line. But it seems to really lock down the issue, people recommend swapping out the clutch, line, and slave. I don't drive my car enough or track it to warrant me changing out the clutch and slave prematurely (I only have 1500 miles), it would be a waste of money for me. I plan on doing the line and fluid and hope that helps my situation. Since you track your car I would go for all 3...
 
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NA-Stang

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I have been trying to look into something like this as well. I don't track my car or have quite the issue you have had. I don't DD my car but when I take it out I enjoy it and drive pretty spiritedly. I notice the longer I drive it like that my pedal seems to diminish some. So to me I contribute that to hot fluid and a ballooning clutch line. I have read people reporting issues like mine, and issues like you have, all the way up to the pedal getting stuck to the floor. Some people recommend changing fluid and going to a SS line. But it seems to really lock down the issue, people recommend swapping out the clutch, line, and slave. I don't drive my car enough or track it to warrant me changing out the clutch and slave prematurely (I only have 1500 miles), it would be a waste of money for me. I plan on doing the line and fluid and hope that helps my situation. Since you track your car I would go for all 3...

Any chance you remember where these threads are that you read people discussing this?
 

Redline727

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I don't I'm sorry, it was all on this forum though. It was a night of combined searches between this forum and using Google that pulled up threads for this forum. Also the factory line has a restriction in it that prevents full pressure going to the internal slave which can also be taken care with a new SS high flow line. I'm trying to decide to get the standard McLeod line for $60 or the McLeod line with the bleeder end on it for a little over $100 then some new fluid.
 

NA-Stang

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Update.

Just took the car for a spirited drive. Wound out each gear to 6K. No trouble what so ever, shifted fine.

So, it seems as if this is either some sort of heat issue? Does the clutch get hotter under race conditions? Possibly the burnout?
 

Redline727

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Yes it does, as does everything else in the drivetrain haha. That's why I'm starting with a new line. The factory plastic line is shit in those high heat conditions, especially when the fluid gets really hot. Can't speak to the condition of your clutch itself, but you can start with just the line like me, then move up to dot 4 fluid if needed, after that if you still have issues new clutch and heavy duty slave.
 

NA-Stang

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I just changed the fluid in the car, and took it for a test drive.

This is the first time I shifted above 6k since the track.

No go. Car will not go into 3rd at that high rpm.

So, not I am leaning towards throwout bearing? Slave cylinder?

What makes me confused though is why only 2-3? 1-2 is fine.
 
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claudermilk

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Slightly OT. I've run into an issue with the 4-5 shift that sounds kind of similar. Car is out for a HPDE event. Later in the 3rd session I started having trouble with lockout there. I wonder if I ran into the same issue? I have the MGW shifter & Blowfish racket, so misalignment shouldn't be that much of an issue. I also haven't really seen the problem since that session.
 

NA-Stang

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Really? No one else has any opinions? Suggestions?

Not even a "Use the search feature, asshole!"

I am very inexperienced when it comes to manual transmissions and clutches.

If no one can explain what is going on, how about what to do to nip it in the bud?

Is Redline on the money here? Steel braided line, slave cylinder/throwout bearing, and new clutch, easy peasy? Problem solved?

I can't be the first person to experience this. Someone has to have solved this before. On any car they have owned.
 

nbk13nw

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Only at high revs? Seems to me that it could be torque related. The trans shifting with the engine maybe? Causing a missed shift from 2 to 3?
 

NA-Stang

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Only at high revs? Seems to me that it could be torque related. The trans shifting with the engine maybe? Causing a missed shift from 2 to 3?

Yes, only high revs. 2-3 shift only. 1-2 is fine.

But, I raced the car before I installed the blowfish racing bracket, so I know what that feels like. This is different feeling. It feels like you are trying to shift the car without using the clutch.

I could be completely wrong of course. If so, CHE torque limiters??

Also, doesn't explain the car dragging me through the lights. But you would think if it was clutch related, it would do it on all shifts.

So frustrating.
 

Redline727

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I'm just trying to help. It's difficult to diagnose over the forum. Based off of your symptoms I'm making the best recommendations in favor of your pocket. Your issues sound heat related as are mine. However I don't track my car so it doesn't get as hot for as long repeatedly as tracking it would. So start small. I would start with the line and Dot4 fluid if you track it. Follow Fords bleeding procedures. Just remember dot 4 has to flushed more often. Normal driving about Every 2 years. Tracking your car just keep an eye on how the fluid looks. Maybe flush every 6 months to a year. Situations like this it's always best to start small and easy. Unless you got money like that. Haha
 
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NA-Stang

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I'm just trying to help. It's difficult to diagnose over the forum. Based off of your symptoms I'm making the best recommendations in favor of your pocket. Your issues sound heat related as are mine. However I don't track my car so it doesn't get as hot for as long repeatedly as tracking it would. So start small. I would start with the line and Dot4 fluid if you track it. Follow Fords bleeding procedures. Just remember dot 4 has to flushed more often. Normal driving about Every 2 years. Tracking your car just keep an eye on how the fluid looks. Maybe flush every 6 months to a year. Situations like this it's always best to start small and easy. Unless you got money like that. Haha

If something I said offended you, I apologize. I was in no way being ungrateful for your input. I was just hoping to get a response from someone who has maybe experienced the same thing, and have done something to remedy it.

I do appreciate your help, and based on your suggestions, I ordered a stainless steel line.
 

Redline727

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If something I said offended you, I apologize. I was in no way being ungrateful for your input. I was just hoping to get a response from someone who has maybe experienced the same thing, and have done something to remedy it.

I do appreciate your help, and based on your suggestions, I ordered a stainless steel line.
None taken I understand. It would be nice to have someone chime in and say, "I had the same issue, here is the fix!" I'll see if I can find any of the threads I researched that made me want to replace my line for my issue.
 

Redline727

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Did you get your line installed yet? Just did mine. Install went well and the clutch feels great. Very consistent, which is what I was looking for.
 

NA-Stang

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Did you get your line installed yet? Just did mine. Install went well and the clutch feels great. Very consistent, which is what I was looking for.

No, I have been too busy.

I did look at access though. How did you get to the lower connection? And, how did you bleed it?

Any heads up or tips would be appreciated
 

Redline727

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I am a service advisor at a BMW dealership so I have access to full shop. So having a lift and certain tools may make things easier but not all required. And your current mods may make this job easier. Like sound tube delete gives you immediate access to the top of the line. And not having any cats gives you more room to work on the bottom. I don't have either. So for me, all the time was taken up by wedging my arm between the tunnel and trans to put the bottom of the line in the elbow.

Things you will need: 1 bottle of Ford Dot 3 of High Performance brake fluid, (or whatever fluid you run) long handle pick, long handle curved needle nose pliers, Teflon tape, mitivac vacuum bleeder or equivalent, #10.5 or #11 rubber stopper, 1/4" barb vacuum line connector, foam window cleaner, brake clean and beer of choice.

Here's what I did:

1. Disconnected the line from the top using a long handle hook pick, this will help you save the clip from falling into the wheel well and saving you hours trying to find it. Try to avoid pulling it all the way out if you can help it. You CANNOT lose these clips. Have some good absorbing rags under it as some fluid will leak out. Leave the reservoir cap ON or more will leak out than necessary.

2. Next raise the car up. Or put it on jack stands to give you access to the driver side. This is where not having cats would help. Look straight up by the bell housing. You will see a plastic elbow stuck in the side of it. The bottom of the line is stuck straight down into the elbow. Remove the clip on the top, again, try to avoid pulling it out all the way so you don't lose it. This is where long handle tools come in handy as I could imagine how little room you may have if you have cats. Long handle pick and curved needle nose pliers will be your friend. Use the long pliers to pop the line out if you can't get your arm up there. More fluid will come out so watch your eyes and mouth.

3. Remove the line from the top. Depending on the line you got, you may have to put the fittings in the new line. It was recommended to me to use a little Teflon tape on the fittings. Screw in by hand then snug tight using two, line wrenches if you have them. Spray a little lube on each end (like foam window cleaner) this will keep the o-ring from getting damaged putting the lines back in easier. Plug top in first. I found it best to run line under the master cylinder, then up over bank 1 valve cover along the black line already clipped on the valve cover, away from the headers. Then back down the center of the firewall down the trans bell housing to the elbow.

4. Raise the car back up, or climb under, whatever your situation is. Now this is the tricky part. Depending on if you have cats or not it may be a bitch. I simply had to wedge my arm up there and fight the line with one hand till I got it lined up just right to slide back in the elbow and push the clip back in. This is where not pulling the clip all the way out will save you a lot of time fighting this step in such a tight space. If you can't get your arm up there those long curved needle nose pliers may come in handy again.

5. Once you get done cursing at the bottom of the line and it's in there, lower the car smoke'em if you got'em, drink a beer, or do what ever you do to relax, the hard part is done.

Now the easy part. Some will say you don't need to it this way due to the system is self bleeding. But Ford uses a vacuum bleeder to bleed the clutch. To me if Ford took the time to write it up a certain way in their repair instructions why not just follow the recommended procedure and make it right and easier on yourself, with less margin for error? The parts are cheap and easy to obtain. You can get a cheap vacuum bleeder from an auto parts store or Harbor Freight if you don't already have one. The rubber stopper and barb fitting from Ace hardware for a few bucks. This is essentially making Ford's specialty tool for bleeding the clutch.

6. Top off the reservoir with whatever fluid you use, or the Ford HP Dot 3 if running stock, to the max line. Drill a hole in the center all of the way through rubber stopper to fit the barb fitting in it. Plug the vacuum bleeder to the other end. With the cap off, place the bottom of the rubber stopper directly over the reservoir. It won't fit inside it, it will just sit on top. Holding it steady pump the vacuum bleeder to 20inhg. Let it hold for 1 minute. If it isn't holding vacuum check for leaks, make sure the rubber stopper is completely covering the reservoir and that both ends of the line are secure. (Putting the system under vacuum is another good reason to do it this way to ensure there are no leaks) After 1 minute release vacuum put the cap back on. Hop in the car and pump the clutch 10-15 times. You may have to pick the clutch off the floor this go around. Then top off the reservoir again and repeat those steps at least two more times or until you get desired pedal feel back. It worked like a charm for me and, was great by the third time but, I did it once for personal reassurance. When you're all done zip tie the line to the black line going over the valve cover to keep it out of way of the header. Do it in two places a few inches from each other so the SS line doesn't chafe the black rubber line. Then go for a test drive. Get the motor nice an hot. You should notice a much more consistent pedal feel all the way through the RPM range. No increased pedal pressure for lack of fluid pressure going to the slave. Which I believe was causing my problem and most likely yours. If you find yourself boiling your fluid at the track. Go to a fluid with a higher wet and dry boiling point. The fluid takes on moisture over time so take note especially to its wet boiling point which will be it's weakest link. So FLUSH often for track use! Remember your clutch and brakes share the same fluid and master cylinder.

If you have any other questions hit me up. I would be happy to help.
 
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NA-Stang

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Wow!

That was a lot more than I was expecting.

Thank you so much.

I hope to get to it this weekend.
 

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