E85 and rubber fuel line

[JUSTA3V]

I read that 05stroker just went thru this as well. I will add another log on this fire.

I switched to e85 6 months ago. As I did I contacted everyone I bought fuel system parts from to make sure they could handle the switch. I ended up replacing my fuel filter to stainless steel.

I had walbro 405s in the hat but decided to leave them in and see how they took the corn as I had 3 450 walbros in the shelf waiting to go in when they and if they failed.

My big concern was the fuel line. I contacted the manufacturer of the line and was told it was fine to run e85 with it. So I was all set.

Made the switch and as I said I'm about 6 to 7 months in and started noticing fuel pressure loss under load. So out came the fuel filter and it was plugged with a black rubber sludge.....fuck.

So I pulled the hat and found this








Compare to new ones.




So I ripped out all my lines and ordered new PTFE lines.


Moral of the story?? Don't believe everything a stranger tells you over the phone.

No rubber line is safe with e85.

I also had my injectors flow tested and thankfully they were still ok. Even though there was black sludge on my delete plates showing that sludge had gone through the injectors.


So E85 users. Learn from my stupidity. Please.

 

[JeremyH]

It's not the hose, although you should use 30r10 hose if that's not what you have, its best suited for in tank use.

Where do you get your e85 and how long has the station had it?

 

[lskiller]

It's not the hose, although you should use 30r10 hose if that's not what you have, its best suited for in tank use.

+1 on that - has to be J30R10 or it won't last in the fuel tank at all. I don't have the PTFE hose but have had the same fuel lines (Fragola Black Nylon hose) in since 2012 on E85 and no issues. I just cleaned the filter last week and it looked good.

 

[JeremyH]

There have been quite a few tests done submerging everything from nylon braided to even common rubber heater hose line in e85 with nothing breaking down or causing black stuff. It is hit or miss for this to happen even with identical fuel systems and the only plausible outcome from testing these theories is it comes from not cleaning the fuel storage tanks after converting to e85. And the other from inside the fuel pumps themselves.

Most will recommend checking your system a few months after switching and replacing filters as needed or finding a new station. You have guys that have filters that look new after a year and others that have this after one tank.

The most common find was stations using diesel storage tanks for e85 and not cleaning the storage tanks prior to switching, the e85 starts dissolving all the gunk and then it ends up in your car. The other was pumps with parts not compatible for e85 use.

My recommendation would be to put those e85 specific pumps in and ensure you have 30r10 hose on the hat as its the best choice like mentioned.

 

[Pentalab]

Those gunked up black fuel socks are the 1st thing the E85 see's! That's coming from the fuel in the tank, not the rubber hoses.

 

[Timmbo]

Those gunked up black fuel socks are the 1st thing the E85 see's! That's coming from the fuel in the tank, not the rubber hoses.

Well you have to remember that when your running a full return fuel system, fuel makes it back to the tank over and over again picking up debris from decomposing hoses. Not only is the inline filter going to see this, so are the pump filter socks. When I installed my Fore Level 4 kit it came with all stainless braided Teflon line. Been running the corn two years with no issues.

 

[JUSTA3V]

I running a return fuel system. I should have mentioned that


My tank.

 

[Sky Render]

It is hit or miss for this to happen even with identical fuel systems and the only plausible outcome from testing these theories is it comes from not cleaning the fuel storage tanks after converting to e85. And the other from inside the fuel pumps themselves.

Geez, I never even thought about the gas stations having equipment that's not compatible with ethanol.

 

[05stroker]

Several of my SS braided rubber lines have gotten stiff and cracked and were coming apart inside there selves from E85 use. They are Jegs Pro Flow SS braided lines. I now have all PTFE lines going in and the lines on the hat to the pumps are ethanol compatible. I am going to switch them to PTFE line as well just to be safe.

 

[JeremyH]

I running a return fuel system. I should have mentioned that


My tank.

Your tank looks fine anything that was there looks to have been cleaned, what about the tanks from the station?





Here was one of the tests, all materials were left in e85 for a year and ahalf, no corrosion, no paint wear, no rubber break down on any of the hoses, nylon braid, stainless braid or even the 30r6 heater hose.

Several of my SS braided rubber lines have gotten stiff and cracked and were coming apart inside there selves from E85 use. They are Jegs Pro Flow SS braided lines. I now have all PTFE lines going in and the lines on the hat to the pumps are ethanol compatible. I am going to switch them to PTFE line as well just to be safe.

Can you say that's from e85 use or just inferior line material in the first place? There are noticeable differences in generic vs quality stuff.

PTFE is always a good choice as there is no vapor seepage as well. I have both in my system ptfe from hat to rails, crossover and return are aeroquip Kevlar/nomex. I have not had any black stuff issues or line issues.

 

[JUSTA3V]

An interesting test for sure. I would like to see one done with the pump running and fuel lines pressurized as well to see the results.

 

[JeremyH]

Just look around the web, there have been lots of test over the past 5 years, disproving (or rather uable to prove) rubber break down from hoses. You can't replicate it. Just was the easiest thing to suspect at the time.

There is a lot of these tests comparisons on svtperformance. That's where you can see a guy with a lethal fragola push lock rubber hose setup run 2 years on e85 with filters that look new, and then someone else with the exact same setup experience what you have after a couple months of e85 use.

Same for fuel hats/pumps, guys though it was black anoidize coatings on hats or pumps, but then you get the black stuff on setups with no coatings.

Then you suspect pump internals for non e85 rated pumps. But again you cant repeat it, one guy will get it and the other no issues on the same pump be it e85 rated or not.

The only variable is the e85, where you get it from and what part of the country your at etc.

 

[JUSTA3V]

Interesting

 

[Wraith]

Buy your corn from a known new station no retro fits?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[lskiller]

I never thought about stations using old diesel storage for e85. That would suck if it wasn't cleaned out first.

 

[JUSTA3V]

It's a new station. There is another member in this board that buys his from the same station. I can't remember his screen name

 

[swflastang05]

Damn this thread made me check mine and sure as shit one of mine is dirty too! (I have an FC3 so only one pump runs most of the time) Not as bad as the OP pic but still should be replaced, now my question is how the heck do you get those filter socks off the pumps? In any case thanks for posting this info!



My float is missing a corner too, I bet that's some of the black crap stuck in the filter. Have to get another one of those too.

 

[JUSTA3V]

They just pry straight off.

I have a spare float if you can't find one locally

 

[swflastang05]

They just pry straight off.

I have a spare float if you can't find one locally

Cool thanks I'll let you know,

 

[JUSTA3V]

Are you running fragola fuel line?