Scott_0
forum member
nice little trick, good job!
Easy Soldering DIY
- Thread starter JeremyH
- Start date
TheKurgan
forum member
You're not supposed to directly heat the solder?
I've been tinning the tips of wires with solder, then melting them together for about 15 years now.
Nothing wrong with my connections...
Who heats the wire till it melts the solder? wouldn't that take forever?
I've been tinning the tips of wires with solder, then melting them together for about 15 years now.
Nothing wrong with my connections...
Who heats the wire till it melts the solder? wouldn't that take forever?
Norm Peterson
corner barstool sitter
Most of the time, that's the way I get my wire soldering done. No, it doesn't take forever, but it probably does help that I have a little more wattage in my gun than part of 35.
Sometimes when things seem to be proceeding too slowly, I will melt the solder. And after it has melted and flowed, keep the iron on the joint to make sure that the wires get hot enough to avoid cold-joint-itis - at this point you're using the solder to heat the wire, so you need to keep the heat on it so it won't freeze too soon. Never had a problem telling when that was accomplished.
It's the same sort of thing soldering copper tubing, except for the kind of heat source you're using. Make the copper metal melt the solder.
Edit - the video is blocked here at the office, so I'll have to look later. But I learned from an old-time electrician and one of the all-around smartest guys I've ever met. My Dad turns 91 today . . .
Norm
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TheKurgan
forum member
It doesn't take long at all to heat the wires...maybe 5 or 10 seconds and you'll get a much better joint. Another point to make is to not overheat the wire. You only want to get it hot enough to melt the solder then pull the iron away. If you need more then just touch the tip back to the wire and melt some more...just like in the video I posted.
You can also use the tip of the iron to reduce the heat shrink tubing by holding it in close proximity and just as an added caution I always wrap with electrical tape.
You can also use the tip of the iron to reduce the heat shrink tubing by holding it in close proximity and just as an added caution I always wrap with electrical tape.
I didnt say this was the textbook way to do it and you dont always get to solder in a nice workspace with all your tools laid out and a clamp to hold the wire, thats why I shared this easy alternate method. Running the clean tip back and forth quickly does heat up the wire and flows the sodler around the connection.
It is very difficult to use the direct heat the wire method on smaller gauge 16-20 wires. As it quickly starts melting/burning the wire sheathing away. Not to mention its a pia to do that outside depending on temperature and wind. On the ship I was trying to solder topside with a 60watt iron it was windy near the water and about 50 degrees outside the iron would not even heat the wire enough to flow the solder(this was on a 14guage wire btw). Had to take the whole cable down below to do it.
This way is very strong and solid connection. My fluke measures resistance to a thousand decimal places and I tested this method awhile back and saw zero difference between the untouched wire and a wire with a break that I used this twist and wrap solder method on. IIRC both wires measured .002 m ohms. This connection on smaller gauge wires is stronger than the wire itself if you were to try and pull it apart the wire would break before this connection. Twisting the wires and then completely coating the outside is a very good easy method for the average guy trying to solder wires outside on their car in a tough spot. Yes for this method to work best you want the tip of the iron clean so the solder doesnt try to flow on to the iron and burn off. I have been working with electronics and soldering for the navy for over 10 years. I still used the intructed method when i have a workstation and controlled environment however this is a nice alternative that in my proffesional opinion does not effect strength or continuity of the connection. I use high quality $ thick 2x 125 degree c shrink tubing, you can use the tip of iron to melt it but I prefer the open flame as it evenly heats all the way to shrink the wrap. I also electrical tape over top for insurance and when sodlering multiple wires that are going to be wrapped together I stagger the lengths of wire so the solder points dont lay next to each other. There is always more than one way to skin a cat, I dont textbook solder every connection I make.
It is very difficult to use the direct heat the wire method on smaller gauge 16-20 wires. As it quickly starts melting/burning the wire sheathing away. Not to mention its a pia to do that outside depending on temperature and wind. On the ship I was trying to solder topside with a 60watt iron it was windy near the water and about 50 degrees outside the iron would not even heat the wire enough to flow the solder(this was on a 14guage wire btw). Had to take the whole cable down below to do it.
This way is very strong and solid connection. My fluke measures resistance to a thousand decimal places and I tested this method awhile back and saw zero difference between the untouched wire and a wire with a break that I used this twist and wrap solder method on. IIRC both wires measured .002 m ohms. This connection on smaller gauge wires is stronger than the wire itself if you were to try and pull it apart the wire would break before this connection. Twisting the wires and then completely coating the outside is a very good easy method for the average guy trying to solder wires outside on their car in a tough spot. Yes for this method to work best you want the tip of the iron clean so the solder doesnt try to flow on to the iron and burn off. I have been working with electronics and soldering for the navy for over 10 years. I still used the intructed method when i have a workstation and controlled environment however this is a nice alternative that in my proffesional opinion does not effect strength or continuity of the connection. I use high quality $ thick 2x 125 degree c shrink tubing, you can use the tip of iron to melt it but I prefer the open flame as it evenly heats all the way to shrink the wrap. I also electrical tape over top for insurance and when sodlering multiple wires that are going to be wrapped together I stagger the lengths of wire so the solder points dont lay next to each other. There is always more than one way to skin a cat, I dont textbook solder every connection I make.
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Norm Peterson
corner barstool sitter
Wouldn't think of doing that any other way.
Out of curiosity, which boat were you on? Back in the day, I was on the Newport News Shipyard engineering team that did the parts of the 688's outside the RC. Still remember a few of the more unusual tasks.
Norm
TheKurgan
forum member
If you don't have the time to do it right for whatever reason then put it off another day. Quality is a dieing breed. If I go to buy a car and I see one shortcut then I go ahead and assume every mod has been done the same.
There's a reason you are soldering in the first place as opposed to using butt connectors, etc.
Better to be safe than sorry. Peace.
There's a reason you are soldering in the first place as opposed to using butt connectors, etc.
Better to be safe than sorry. Peace.
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Thekid760
forum member
nice trick. I suck at soldering so I'll give this a try next time.
Nice. I was on a 688i boat USS BOISE from 03 to 09. We were in norfolk naval shipyard in portsmouth back in 03/04.
Yup peace.
There is always a negative nancy when it comes to doing anything.
Theres is nothing wrong with using a properly installed butt connector. The solid core of the connector offers no additional resistance or heat. Only difference from a soldered connection and properly done butt splice using a terminal is the solder one is stronger. If you were to extremely overstress the wire and pull on it till the breaking point the wire will always fail at the butt connector where as a soldered joint wont the wire it self would break first.
If you would like to test this style of connection on a small gauge wire versus the instructed method to find a flaw in connection continuity or connection strength I challenge you to do so and share your results.
Matter of fact, for the average DIY car enthusiast that has no training in soldering and normaly just wings it(no offense fdjizm lol) I would reccomend this way as its easy as shit to do and gives you damn good results without cutting any corners like you would lead people to believe.
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lostsoul
2014 vett or 2015 stang..
TheKurgan
forum member
LOL I wasn't talking about that kind of butt connector!
My eyes father my eyes!!!
My eyes father my eyes!!!
Sweet yeah we were a VLS boat (verticle launch). And was on board when we shot the first successful blovk 3 and 4 torpedo tube launched cruise missle as well.
5,4,3,2,1....ITL (intent to launch) ... missile broach .... booster separation .... transition to cruise." With that report, a Navy Tomahawk Block IV cruise missile was launched for the first time from the torpedo tube of the attack submarine USS Boise (SSN-764), under way in the Gulf of Mexico test range operating areas. In a second test event that same week, BOISE also launched a Tomahawk Block III missile.
"Under the command of Cmdr. Rodney A. Mills, Boise executed a flawless strike plan and countdown resulting in the successful launch. Boise, the first U.S attack submarine to receive the commercial-off-the-shelf based, combat control system designated AN/BYG-1, just recently completed a 10-month installation period consisting of depot and pier-side modernization. In preparation for the launches, the ship's operational tempo increased significantly to further train with the system, perform at-sea alignment testing with missile simulators and complete a successful Basic Submarine Assessment/Tomahawk certification."
5,4,3,2,1....ITL (intent to launch) ... missile broach .... booster separation .... transition to cruise." With that report, a Navy Tomahawk Block IV cruise missile was launched for the first time from the torpedo tube of the attack submarine USS Boise (SSN-764), under way in the Gulf of Mexico test range operating areas. In a second test event that same week, BOISE also launched a Tomahawk Block III missile.
"Under the command of Cmdr. Rodney A. Mills, Boise executed a flawless strike plan and countdown resulting in the successful launch. Boise, the first U.S attack submarine to receive the commercial-off-the-shelf based, combat control system designated AN/BYG-1, just recently completed a 10-month installation period consisting of depot and pier-side modernization. In preparation for the launches, the ship's operational tempo increased significantly to further train with the system, perform at-sea alignment testing with missile simulators and complete a successful Basic Submarine Assessment/Tomahawk certification."
TexasBlownV8
Formerly TexasBlownV6
For soldering smaller wire, like 16 ga. and smaller, I prefer to use a cheapy radio shack 30-35 watt iron. For larger wire though, I use a big trigger-syle gun with 2 heat settings, and pull the heat away as it starts getting real hot
You can and do want some solder on the tip of the gun or iron, both for tinning the tip and for helping get heat transfer to commence.
If your solder connection appears shiny, you should be ok. If it looks dull, it is probably a cold solder connection and you need to reheat it and add a little more solder.
Working in a car and/or exterior environment is very difficult, so whatever methods you use to get decent solder connections, go for it. A little practice and anyone can do it. +1 on soldering in a controlled or internal environment is much easier and consistent. But with a little practice, anyone can create good solder connections. Go for it!
Yes there's many ways to 'skin this cat', and many ways to do it right. We're after reliability and making sure connections and splices do not cause trouble. Doing it right the first time, every time, is something to strive for indeed. You know the effort you put into doing everything to the best of your ability in your car, and where you skip and take shortcuts. Do you really want to post up a thread where you have DTC and it ends up being because of a connection? No, you dont. That's no fun.
You can and do want some solder on the tip of the gun or iron, both for tinning the tip and for helping get heat transfer to commence.
If your solder connection appears shiny, you should be ok. If it looks dull, it is probably a cold solder connection and you need to reheat it and add a little more solder.
Working in a car and/or exterior environment is very difficult, so whatever methods you use to get decent solder connections, go for it. A little practice and anyone can do it. +1 on soldering in a controlled or internal environment is much easier and consistent. But with a little practice, anyone can create good solder connections. Go for it!
Yes there's many ways to 'skin this cat', and many ways to do it right. We're after reliability and making sure connections and splices do not cause trouble. Doing it right the first time, every time, is something to strive for indeed. You know the effort you put into doing everything to the best of your ability in your car, and where you skip and take shortcuts. Do you really want to post up a thread where you have DTC and it ends up being because of a connection? No, you dont. That's no fun.
california gt
senior citizen member
Just learned two great ideas.
And yet another reason to love this site!!
And yet another reason to love this site!!
Ok, I'll put my two cents in...
The video concerns me because from the quick movements of the soldering iron it is hard to believe that the wires were fully wetted with solder. That said they were inspected so maybe they were ok.
Here are two tricks I use on cars and equipment at work. The first one is similar to what the video shows but instead of wrapping the joint in solder I wrap the joint with a strand of copper. One small strand will hold a joint while I solder it. The other one I use, and the one I would have used for a wire in the open like the video, is take the plastic top from a spray can and using cutter cut two V's in the top. Slide the two wires in the V's and solder. The added benefit of the plastic top is it will catch any excess solder that drops off.
The video concerns me because from the quick movements of the soldering iron it is hard to believe that the wires were fully wetted with solder. That said they were inspected so maybe they were ok.
Here are two tricks I use on cars and equipment at work. The first one is similar to what the video shows but instead of wrapping the joint in solder I wrap the joint with a strand of copper. One small strand will hold a joint while I solder it. The other one I use, and the one I would have used for a wire in the open like the video, is take the plastic top from a spray can and using cutter cut two V's in the top. Slide the two wires in the V's and solder. The added benefit of the plastic top is it will catch any excess solder that drops off.
mr. anderson
forum member
I disagree with the method, long term you are inducing cause for cold solder joints ie. intermittent electrical issues down the road ( gotta love trouble shooting intermittent gripes).
you want the heat to go from the iron, to the wire, and have the solder suck into the wire is one method that works well. another is applying a small amount of solder onto the iron tip and then contacting the wire and adding solder to the iron or wire as solder melts into the wire.
melting the solder quickly like that and just let it fall onto the wire is asking for cold solder joints all over the place. I do like the wrapping of the solder, that works well. just not the quick back and forth action of the iron.
oh and "the bigger the blob, the better the job" is not how to do it.
yes, I was qualified as a 9526 and a 9527 2M tech, prior AT, now AW.
for those that are navy and don't know, when NAVSEA took over the solder school from NAVAIR (around 1995-96) they reduced the quality of 2M techs by making the school requirements less stringent. the analogy of why they eased up was, "ships can't fall out of the water if a electrical system fail." pretty lame, and a loss of quality workmanship.
you want the heat to go from the iron, to the wire, and have the solder suck into the wire is one method that works well. another is applying a small amount of solder onto the iron tip and then contacting the wire and adding solder to the iron or wire as solder melts into the wire.
melting the solder quickly like that and just let it fall onto the wire is asking for cold solder joints all over the place. I do like the wrapping of the solder, that works well. just not the quick back and forth action of the iron.
oh and "the bigger the blob, the better the job" is not how to do it.
yes, I was qualified as a 9526 and a 9527 2M tech, prior AT, now AW.
for those that are navy and don't know, when NAVSEA took over the solder school from NAVAIR (around 1995-96) they reduced the quality of 2M techs by making the school requirements less stringent. the analogy of why they eased up was, "ships can't fall out of the water if a electrical system fail." pretty lame, and a loss of quality workmanship.
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