Fays2 Watts Link...Install Help!!

[AutoXRacer]

I just installed...well, assembled a Fays2 Watts Link. I am having issues with the adjustments of the rods and axle clamps.

Would someone that has installed one explain to me in layman terms what I need to do. I am currently studying the install guide for the 3rd time. lol

I wonder how to set the length of the rods and I know they need to be equal length, so does that mean I can adjust the driver side clamp? So they are not symmetrical (clamps)...

Whats the best way to center the differential/axle.

What are those 1/4" spacers for and the extra hardware?

Thanks, any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[zipperhead]

Try posting in the corner carving forum. There are some very knowledge posters there

 

[Pumpkinfish]

I installed mine back in 2006 or so. From what I remember there are a few very critical steps. One, the car must be setup with the rear suspension under load. I would try and get 4 ramps, jack the car up and put a ramp under each wheel. Secondly, assemble everything loosely (except for the watts frame) so you can slide things around. I would then get a feel for where things need to be positioned and lined up. The critical thing here is the arms should be level and approximately the same angle from the watts frame. The propeller should be at the 1 o'clock position (if I recall correctly).

You can push on the body to center the wheels/axle when things are loose. I used a ruler on the wheel arch and measured to the top of the rim.

If you can take photos of where you are and what parts you need help with. I know there are a few washers to help you space the arms and get the angles as close as possible.

A trick to get the arms the same length is to get one arm in the correct position and length. Take it off and bring it to your bench. Take your unadjusted arm and try to get the length close with it laying on top of the properly adjusted one. Then slip the bolts in through heim eyes to dial the length in properly. You could also build a jig with nails/screws on a piece of wood so you can line up the other one. It would be the same principle as laying them on top of each other so why waste time building a jig?

I don't know if you have the short or full size frame, but I liked having my propeller set a hole or two above center.

 

[AutoXRacer]

So reading the install book again...seems like this is the procedure:

1 - Set rods with 1-3 threads on the axle clamp side and 3-6 threads on propeller side. Driver side clamp set a 9pm and Passenger clamp set at 4pm.
2 - Adjust the driver side axle clamp and rod so that the rod is parallel to the axle tube and ground while maintaining a 12-1pm position on the top propeller and 6-7pm on the lower propeller end. I guess slide the driver side clamp as needed...?
3 - Here is where I have the issue...the passenger side rod does not reach... I have to lengthen the rod to that it reaches between the lower propeller and axle clamp. So do I lengthen both rods until I can set the propeller to the 12-1pm and 6-7pm angle while maintaining the rods parallel to the ground and axle tube?

 

[AutoXRacer]

I installed mine back in 2006 or so. From what I remember there are a few very critical steps. One, the car must be setup with the rear suspension under load. I would try and get 4 ramps, jack the car up and put a ramp under each wheel. Secondly, assemble everything loosely (except for the watts frame) so you can slide things around. I would then get a feel for where things need to be positioned and lined up. The critical thing here is the arms should be level and approximately the same angle from the watts frame. The propeller should be at the 1 o'clock position (if I recall correctly).

You can push on the body to center the wheels/axle when things are loose. I used a ruler on the wheel arch and measured to the top of the rim.

If you can take photos of where you are and what parts you need help with. I know there are a few washers to help you space the arms and get the angles as close as possible.

A trick to get the arms the same length is to get one arm in the correct position and length. Take it off and bring it to your bench. Take your unadjusted arm and try to get the length close with it laying on top of the properly adjusted one. Then slip the bolts in through heim eyes to dial the length in properly. You could also build a jig with nails/screws on a piece of wood so you can line up the other one. It would be the same principle as laying them on top of each other so why waste time building a jig?

I don't know if you have the short or full size frame, but I liked having my propeller set a hole or two above center.

Thanks for the info... Unfortunately I'm in the middle of a build...so my car is on jack stands with no drivetrain (no weight) and no rear suspension (springs nor shocks). I also had to use the short version since the full version was contacting my rear sway bar.

So you set yours to 1-2 holes above center? What does that setting do to the rear-end? I have it temporarily set 1 below center (I figured since my rear is lowered approx 1"-1.5"). I thought the center hole was stock ride height.

 

[AutoXRacer]

This is what I've done...does this sound right?



The passenger side axle clamp position is a fixed location due to the axle vent…passenger side rod is adjusted (length) to achieve the 6-7 o’clock position on the lower propeller attachment point. The adjustment is made while the axle and rods are parallel (leveled) to the ground and axle. Once the passenger side it set, match driver side rod to passenger length so they are both equal length.


Can the rod lengths be 1/16”-1/8” off?


Once rods are set, slide driver side axle clamp toward the passenger side to meet the rod end-link and fasten. Axle clamps will not be equal distance from center of axle.
Is this the correct installation? Due to limited access, I could not follow the instructions to the “T”. In addition, the rods are not exactly equal length; they are 1/8”-1/16” off.



Is that OK?


Finally, the only way my rods are parallel to the ground and axle is when the axle is fully raised just 1” off the bump stops hitting the frame/chassis (I do not have springs or shocks installed at this time). Is that OK? Or do the rods need to be parallel when the vehicle is on the ground under normal loading?

 

[Whiskey11]

This is what I've done...does this sound right?



The passenger side axle clamp position is a fixed location due to the axle vent…passenger side rod is adjusted (length) to achieve the 6-7 o’clock position on the lower propeller attachment point. The adjustment is made while the axle and rods are parallel (leveled) to the ground and axle. Once the passenger side it set, match driver side rod to passenger length so they are both equal length.

There should still be some room to move the passenger side clamp around the vent. The passenger side clamp has a slot in it for that very reason.

Can the rod lengths be 1/16”-1/8” off?

Not if you want it to work correctly. They have to be the same. If the passenger side rod is set correctly as you say then set the drivers side to the same length. Adjust the drivers side clamp so it is correct.

Once rods are set, slide driver side axle clamp toward the passenger side to meet the rod end-link and fasten. Axle clamps will not be equal distance from center of axle.
Is this the correct installation? Due to limited access, I could not follow the instructions to the “T”. In addition, the rods are not exactly equal length; they are 1/8”-1/16” off.

The rods need to be the same length. There is a section about preload in the rods and how to get rid of it. If you do it correctly the rods will he the same length from center to center of the bolts.

Is that OK?


Finally, the only way my rods are parallel to the ground and axle is when the axle is fully raised just 1” off the bump stops hitting the frame/chassis (I do not have springs or shocks installed at this time). Is that OK? Or do the rods need to be parallel when the vehicle is on the ground under normal loading?

put the springs in and adjust the arms with the suspension under load like it says to do in the instructions. The arms don't have to he parallel but they have to be in equal but opposite angles. If they are not equal but opposite angles the watts link will not work properly. Level is easier to set up though. Use the other bolt holes if you have to to get them set up underload as level then you can move to whatever bolt hole you wish.

See responses in red!

 

[AutoXRacer]

Thanks for the reply.

My issue is that I don't have any weight in the car...my whole drivetrain is out.
Would that be enough weight?

My rods are opposite angles / \ and equal length...they do not sit parallel to the ground and axle with the vehicle sitting on its tires.

I will install the shocks and springs and try again...but like I said, the only way I can get the rods to sit parallel to the ground and axle is if the rear-end is lifted almost hitting the bump stops....since the passenger side clamp has to be at 4 o'clock position...

Do yours sit parallel when the car is sitting on the ground?

 

[Whiskey11]

Thanks for the reply.

My issue is that I don't have any weight in the car...my whole drivetrain is out.
Would that be enough weight?

My rods are opposite angles / \ and equal length...they do not sit parallel to the ground and axle with the vehicle sitting on its tires.

I will install the shocks and springs and try again...but like I said, the only way I can get the rods to sit parallel to the ground and axle is if the rear-end is lifted almost hitting the bump stops....since the passenger side clamp has to be at 4 o'clock position...

Do yours sit parallel when the car is sitting on the ground?

Nope. I set mine up in the center hole then dropped the pivot bolt to the bottom hole so mine are still equal but opposite but certainly not level.

 

[DILYSI Dave]

You should be able to do it without springs / weight, as long as you set the axle to the proper ride height.

 

[AutoXRacer]

You should be able to do it without springs / weight, as long as you set the axle to the proper ride height.

How do I know the proper ride height? I was thinking to installed the wheels/tires back on and estimate the ride height (gap between fender and tire)... lol

Just not sure if thats OK. Even if I put the springs back on, I can't weigh down the car due to no drivetrain.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Maybe what you need to do for now is just assemble the fasteners only snug-tight (use Home Depot nuts if the supplied nuts have any manner of self-locking). This will keep the axle stable and at least somewhere near right until you get the rest of it together.


Norm

 

[A John In NJ]

Sooo..... How'd it go? Curious to know cause I just purchased a Fays2

Do you still have it on? How did it feel?

How was the NVH?

 

[AutoXRacer]

I have it on... lol
Its a struggle to get it dialed in; I don't have it perfectly dialed in, but good enough to where I'm not touching it. lol

The feel is just 1000X better than the panhard bar. The rear is solid and doesn't wiggle.
On the track though, the rear end is so solid that it tends to over-steer slightly when pushed. But overall much better handling.

Its just the setup thats involved.
Regarding NVH, I am not a good judge of that because when I installed the Watts link, I also installed several chassis braces, k-member, etc...so overall NVH got rough.

 

[A John In NJ]

I have it on... lol
Its a struggle to get it dialed in; I don't have it perfectly dialed in, but good enough to where I'm not touching it. lol

The feel is just 1000X better than the panhard bar. The rear is solid and doesn't wiggle.
On the track though, the rear end is so solid that it tends to over-steer slightly when pushed. But overall much better handling.

Its just the setup thats involved.
Regarding NVH, I am not a good judge of that because when I installed the Watts link, I also installed several chassis braces, k-member, etc...so overall NVH got rough.

Roger that. Thanks for the input.

 

[JesseW.]

for future reference, when installing, with axle at ride height and centered under the car....
1. put the passenger side clamp on all the way against the vent tube. do not move again
2. adjust your passenger side bar with threads as per instructions
3. attach bar to clamp and propeller, prop should be around the middle hole as it makes measuring easier, verify prop is around the 1:00 postion with bar installed.
4. lock bar ends from turning
5. remove bar, adjust driver side bar to same length, lock, do not adjust bar lengthes again
6. reattach passenger bar.
7. attach drivers clamp loosely, attach driver side bar to clamp, letting the clamp be where it is.
8. adjust bar angle on the drivers side clamp so it is equal and opposite the angle of the passenger side bar.
9. finally tighten everything and recheck angles

i do not know why fay's starts with the drivers side, but it makes things confusing....
from here you will only have to move the prop bolt for adjustment, nothing else will change

if the bars are not equal length, and are not equal and opposite angles, you can shear off the prop bolt. i've seen it happen once at an autocross from improper install.

 

[AutoXRacer]

Also, if you are trying to center your rear axles. I learned to only loosen the driver's side, center axle, then tighten.

I even drew increment lines on the axle tube and tapped the axle clamp to the side to get as close as possible to a centered axle (tires/wheels equal distance from the fender lip). Although, you will never get it perfect. I got tired of trying. LOL