few things im wondering about

[SoundGuyDave]

also what is the difference in pad life of the DTC-60/HT-10 or DTC-70/DTC-60 compared to each other and how long is that actual length if i only use them at the event

Well, your mileage may vary, literally, depending on driving style, how good your technique is, if you pay attention to brake management on track, how heavy the car is, how sticky the rubber is, the layout of the track(s) in question, and probably what phase the moon is in, as well...

I used to run Carbotech XP12/XP10 and switched over to Hawk at the beginning of last year, looking for more durability. The Carbotech pads are absolutely AWESOME, believe me, with killer initial bite, modulation and release, and they're VERY rotor-friendly. They don't last very long, though. Two to three track weekends, and the pads are GONE. After I switched to Hawk, I ran ELEVEN track days before the most brake-deadly track on the planet finally did them in, along with the calipers. The Hawks are quite hard on the rotors, but the pads themselves last forever. With the cost of a set of rotors from NTO being so low, I would rather change out $40 worth of rotors every couple-three weekends, than change out $200 worth of pads over the same time.

If you brake like I do, VERY late, VERY hard, and trailbrake through the corners, you will wear them significantly faster than a basic, straight-line, plenty-of-reserve braking technique will. Since I was transitioning from the Carbotechs, I skipped the HT-10/HP+ setup altogether, but I have recommended that for many of my students, and results seem to be comparable to the DTC line, but that also varies based on braking technique.

In general, how long they'll last will really depend on the type of track, as well. For me, Road America presents three REALLY hard braking zones, turns 1, 5, and 12; four medium corners, turns 3, 6, 8, and 14, and one solid tap at turn 11, the kink. Given that it's a tick over 4 miles long, though, and the straights are HUGE (3025', 2736', and 2636'!) there is plenty of time to bleed off the heat developed in the brakes. Not all that much wear. Now, contrast that to Blackhawk Farms, where it's a tick under two miles, seven turns, and the main straight (1800-ish feet) is short. Five hard braking zones, and one medium/tap, all condensed into that short of a track simply generates more heat than you would believe. There just isn't anywhere on the track to let the brakes cool off, they just get hot, hotter, still hotter, etc. I had an off there with a momentary excursion across the grass partially sideways, and the turf that got shoved into the wheels not only caught fire, but carbonized...

In general, if you're not F'n nuts like Asshole or me with them, the Hawk pads will last a decent number of track days.

Vapor Trails: Yes, the expenses add up, but they are completely controllable. If you go out and drive at 70-80% of your ability on track, tires, brakes, fuel all last almost FOREVER. It's when you start to push that you start burning/tearing stuff up. It would be like looking at Chevykiller's trials and tribulations and saying that you don't want to go drag racing, because a SEVEN SECOND STREET CAR went through fourteen different power adders and seventy bajilion dollars to get there...

Seriously, you can have an absolute BLAST out on track with minimal consumable expense if you don't constantly try to push the envelope. With a blown motor (based on your avatar) and a heavy car, I would step up to HT-10/HP+ pads on a fresh set of OE rotors and good fluid, and just go have fun. Out of pocket, less than $400, and it should last you 10 track days if you're not trying to win the HPDE Intergalactic Championship. At $40 a day, the fun/$ ratio is just huge.

 

[irishpwr46]

At $40 a day, the fun/$ ratio is just huge.

fuck it im sold... now is anyone here based out of nyc that i can hook up with. i know my buddy redmoses does the auto-x, but we wanna hit a real track. maybe pocono or monticello or englishtown

 

[Kobie]

Looking forward to the new EBC Bluesuff brake pads. I have the Yellowstuff now and they work great for the street and some minor tracking. I read somewhere on the EBC site that the Yellowstuff pads were meant for a car weighing 2500 ish lbs. The new Bluestuff pads are meant for "heavy" cars about 3500 ish lbs.

 

[pieperz06]

If you brake like I do, VERY late, VERY hard, and trailbrake through the corners, you will wear them significantly faster than a basic, straight-line, plenty-of-reserve braking technique will.

well damn that is my next hurtle to tackle (trail braking)

i know they will ware out but my thing is i would like them to last about 6 events not including rotors

how bad is it on pads to run with rotors with big groves in them cuz i dont want to just throw away my old set of rotors

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Think of it this way: you risk trashing a $200 set of brake pads, for the sake of a $40 rotor... I wouldn't do it, personally. Throw fresh rotors on with the new pads (also the compound needs to bed in, so a fresh rotor is a good idea), and just go from there. I pull my rotors from service once I have turned them blue/purple, and the little heat cracks all over the surface get close to the edge, or look to be expanding (opening up, not getting longer). As soon as I see that, I swap them out and just bin the old ones. I've found the following ratio is realistic for me: 1 set calipers = 4 sets rotors = 1.5-ish sets pads. If your old rotors are still pretty fresh, and the groove isn't that deep, you might try having them machined and use them for your street rotors. I wouldn't use a heavily machined rotor on the track, since all the mass they pulled off to make it clean will affect the rotor's ability to dissipate heat. Don't ask me how I know that...

Also, don't worry overmuch about the late braking thing. That should be one of the last things to work on, AFTER you have mastered the line, getting on the gas early, balancing the car mid-corner with the throttle, and have smooth hands and feet. It really is the truth: "In slow, out fast; in fast, out backwards." As you get more comfortable out on track, your speeds will come up naturally, and you'll start to have more and more confidence in what you AND the car are really capable of. THAT'S the time to start experimenting with moving your braking zone deeper, and trailbraking. What you're looking for is to start driving at a level where zipping through the corners with the wheels screaming at you becomes a comfortable experience, with no little inner twinges or little internal voices whispering "OHMYGODWE'REGOINGTODIE!!!!!!!" Once you hit that almost detached feeling, only then should you start to push it.

 

[DusterRT]

At the start of last season I made the most effective purchase to date for improving my lap times. I bought a MaxQData data logger and then had my brother drive my car at Mosport.

What model did you go with? For some reason I was thinking data logging equipment would be much more expensive..

 

[marksti]

If you brake like I do, VERY late, VERY hard, and trailbrake through the corners, you will wear them significantly faster than a basic, straight-line, plenty-of-reserve braking technique will. Since I was transitioning from the

Do you brake with your left foot?

 

[Vapour Trails]

http://s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26558&highlight=brakes

I saw that ad, but I'd prefer to buy calipers that don't look like they've been thrown down a set of concrete stairs...repeatedly.

I'll probably pay a bit more and get a brand new kit from BuyFordRacing.com

 

[Sleeper_08]

What model did you go with? For some reason I was thinking data logging equipment would be much more expensive..

I went with the earlier version of this complete system as it provided everything in one

http://www.maxqdata.com/VeQtr.htm

The only other requirement was in inverter to keep it charged up from the power outlet in the console. I made a base to mount it all to the back of the right rear seat which is placed in a horizontal position. To protect the roof paint I had a small piece of 3M protection film put in the center where the unit mounts magnetically. To be doubly safe I also super glued 4 rare earth magents directly to the unit.

Here is a link to the 164 page manual for the system and if you even just scan this you will get a sense of how powerful it is

http://www.maxqdata.com/MQGPSManualRev19.pdf

 

[Sleeper_08]

I saw that ad, but I'd prefer to buy calipers that don't look like they've been thrown down a set of concrete stairs...repeatedly.

I'll probably pay a bit more and get a brand new kit from BuyFordRacing.com

Do a Google search on M-2300-S and it will turn up some sources like this

http://www.fordracingpartsdirect.com/Ford_Racing_Mustang_14_inch_Brembo_Brake_Kit_p/m-2300-s.htm

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Do you brake with your left foot?

Hell, I'd brake with all THREE legs if I could figure out how to do it!!

Honestly, though, the LFB thing is something I'm working on. I saw a vid of a guy in a Lotus Exige all but dancing on the pedals:

heel-toe downshift, slide the left foot over to keep brake pressure up to trailbrake at corner entry, and then adjust the rotation with the right foot on the gas... all in a little over 1.5 seconds... Fuck.

At the moment, my left foot is far too "stupid" for track braking. After I get the suspension dialled in at my first event or two, though, that's the next thing I'm going to be working on.

 

[Random Asshole]

In general, if you're not F'n nuts like Asshole or me with them, the Hawk pads will last a decent number of track days.

^
Haha. I actually laughed out loud while reading that. Thanks for the compliment.

Vapor Trails: Yes, the expenses add up, but they are completely controllable.

^
Let's not sugar coat anything Dave. It's a big boy hobby. What you're saying is like getting a hooker and just talking.

In ONE season I went through:
3 sets of calipers
2 sets of balljoints
14 tires
broke 1 shock
Probably destroyed the rear control arm bushings and diff

If you go out and drive at 70-80% of your ability on track, tires, brakes, fuel all last almost FOREVER.

^
But if you don't, then you can't get one of these:

..should last you 10 track days if you're not trying to win the HPDE Intergalactic Championship.

^
That's next..EVERYONE MUST KNOW THAT I AM FAST AND WILL HAUL ASS THROUGHOUT THE GALAXY!!!


Putting what Dave said into perspective:

Dave runs (or at least plans to run) the amount of events that a Koni Challenge race team does. I'm pretty sure there's a number of guys, (including me) that are not going to be burning up brakes like he does. So "wear out fast" is going to be completely different from the average user. I personally had 3 track days, 5 time attack events, and about 8k miles (including a drive to the Dragon's Tail from Chicago and back). This was all done with Carbotech xp10/xp8's and more importantly ONE SET of rotors that were completely untouched throughout all that listed. I am NOT knocking DTCs whatsoever as I may be actually trying them out this year.

The point is:
Since usage is going to vary driver to driver, the only thing that should be of concern is "what is the best brakes I can afford?" The subject of dual purpose pads has been gone over although it sounds like there may be a few "options" out there, I think it's absolutely ridiculous to even consider it. Think about it, would you really wanna put your life in the hands of pads that aren't really made for what you are doing just to save 200 bucks? I've had my fair share of "close calls" on race pads and chances are good that I wouldn't have been driving my car home if I was using something less suited for the situation. Swapping pads is not time consuming or difficult. If you don't track more than say 4-5 times a year, then a good set of race pads will last longer than your think and will make your day A LOT better out there.

 

[Stangmeister9]

well damn that is my next hurtle to tackle (trail braking)

i know they will ware out but my thing is i would like them to last about 6 events not including rotors

how bad is it on pads to run with rotors with big groves in them cuz i dont want to just throw away my old set of rotors

Remove the rotors and take them to your local shop and see if they got any life left to have them resurfaced. take the new ones with you to the track just incase. there are plenty of folks and tools around to help you if a rotor swap is in order. the surface as i saw, would def. need resurfacing. one question are these the oem rotors the car came with. if so it just maybe its in your best interest to replace them and use them as crutches to get you home one day if needed, resurfacing is cheap like $10 a rotor.

 

[Gray Ghost GT]

Hell, I'd brake with all THREE legs if I could figure out how to do it!!

Honestly, though, the LFB thing is something I'm working on. I saw a vid of a guy in a Lotus Exige all but dancing on the pedals:

heel-toe downshift, slide the left foot over to keep brake pressure up to trailbrake at corner entry, and then adjust the rotation with the right foot on the gas... all in a little over 1.5 seconds... Fuck.

At the moment, my left foot is far too "stupid" for track braking. After I get the suspension dialled in at my first event or two, though, that's the next thing I'm going to be working on.

I'm in the same boat! Working on my LFB and refining my heel-toe shifting technique. I try to find time while driving to and from work (when traffic allows) to practice, like on/off ramps. Practice.. Practice.. Practice.. till it becomes natural. I hope to get to that point soon, but damn to watch some of these guys on video.... damn!

 

[pieperz06]

Remove the rotors and take them to your local shop and see if they got any life left to have them resurfaced. take the new ones with you to the track just incase. there are plenty of folks and tools around to help you if a rotor swap is in order. the surface as i saw, would def. need resurfacing. one question are these the oem rotors the car came with. if so it just maybe its in your best interest to replace them and use them as crutches to get you home one day if needed, resurfacing is cheap like $10 a rotor.

i was thinking about just useing them as DD rotors and maby autox i dont brake much in autox

 

[pieperz06]

how much brake fluid do i need to get if im going to compleatly flush my lines and put in the better fluid

 

[DusterRT]

how much brake fluid do i need to get if im going to compleatly flush my lines and put in the better fluid

It can be done with one quart, but I'd have two on hand just in case. If you don't use it now, you'll use it later. Kind of depends on the condition of the old fluid and how much flushing you have to do to get it all clean.

 

[pieperz06]

It can be done with one quart, but I'd have two on hand just in case. If you don't use it now, you'll use it later. Kind of depends on the condition of the old fluid and how much flushing you have to do to get it all clean.

so if it comes in 1/2 liter bottles how many do i need

 

[DusterRT]

so if it comes in 1/2 liter bottles how many do i need

You need to Google unit conversions.

1 liter is 1.06 quarts, so you'd need (4) 1/2 liter bottles. Smaller containers are better if you ask me, since once it's open you can't store it (the bottles are filled with nitrogen from the factory, when the seal is broken the nitrogen escapes and the fluid starts absorbing moisture from the atmosphere).