How to handle 4 dummies.(me)

[Cookiemonster]

Mr. Dave haha.

I might have to try that. Iv always been taught the slower the corner the more trail braking. I see where your getting at though and it seems very risky like a hit or a miss deal. Im just wondering if the risk is worth the reward. Ill give it a try though Im only autocrossing for fun right now and enjoying kicking some M3 ass. even stock this car is better than i thought it would be.

 

[danbev07]

and enjoying kicking some M3 ass.

when you go to streets with me, don't expect this to continue being true you will HATE miatas and m3s and corvettes!

my little v6 has major understeering issues, but that's because I made the mistake of upgrading to a GT takeoff sway in the front and a Helwig rear sway (set at it's max level). I'm also attempting to run fast with nt555s - something I've found doesn't seem to be possible. Not to mention poor alignment for sure.

if/when I get the v8 in, I'll be resetting the suspension to as close to stock as possible and starting over. i'll contribute any finds i have once I start the process!

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Cookie: It is a rather high-risk move, but if you want that last tenth of a second, it may be worth it. All disclaimers apply.... Seriously, though, focus on the corner exit and getting back on the gas as early as possible. That's where the time will be found.

Dan: RE: Miata/M3/Vettes... I love following a fast Miata driver around a track, you can pick up all kinds of little tips trying to run their line. M3s are actually pretty beastly cars, when it comes down to it, and so are 'vettes. It still comes down to the driver in many situations, though.

 

[ArizonaGT]

Did anyone mention driving lessons?

 

[Cookiemonster]

Good point! I know after my racing school it was like i was one with the car hahha..

 

[Chris B.]

Did anyone mention driving lessons?

I was just going to bring that up. The first modifications should be to fix the loose nut behind the wheel. Its the reason why in my '08 GT with minimal mods I was running faster lap times than a new 911 Carrera 2 last summer. Its fun when you can go faster than people in their cars with a base price of $87,000 because you have skill.

 

[Sleeper_08]

I realized last year that the driver is probably the biggest single thing affecting lap times!

I have chased down and passed a Ford GT but was also passed by a Jeep!

Seat time and instruction are the best way to improve your times.

 

[Vapour Trails]

I'm also attempting to run fast with nt555s - something I've found doesn't seem to be possible.

Those hockey pucks will turn you into a great driver someday. In fact, the greatest drivers in the world started as Zamboni drivers and worked their way up. You learn critical Zamboni control skillz going 5 mph on ice.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Those hockey pucks will turn you into a great driver someday. In fact, the greatest drivers in the world started as Zamboni drivers and worked their way up. You learn critical Zamboni control skillz going 5 mph on ice.

[sarcasm]No way!! It's always better to get velcro tires as quick as you can. That way you can beat up on 100HP FWD Hondas and be proud of your accomplishment, even if you can't turn a wheel to save your life. Better find out what kind of tires that Jeep was running on, they're obviously better than what Sleeper had on the Mustang. Driver skill had NOTHING to do with that one...[/sarcasm]

 

[redstangs9308gt]

Driving school, thats a thought but does a Class A cdl with all endoursments including motorcycle count? lol Ok had to throw that out there, I adgree with yall on the driving school, my biggest problem is that my car feels loose even when I am trying to get off the line. I have on more than one occasion went into a curve too hard, panic, let off and slide almost off the curve into the other lane. Another example of what my car is doing, go into a curve normal speed, in the middle of the curve try to throttle out fast and the car breaks out. I think my tires might have alot to do with it. They are stocker bridgestones.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Get thee to a NASA event, and sign up for HPDE-1. That will give you 3-4 classroom sessions, plus an instructor in the car with you for every driving session as well, PER DAY.

Honestly, from the description, I don't think the tires are your limiting factor right now. They're certainly not helping you, but they aren't the main issue. You need to tighten the nut behind the wheel.

For your first issue, it's all weight transfer. You go into a curve, and the weight transfers to the outside of the car, and away from the inside. Now, you "panic," and lift off the gas. In terms of transfer, you shifted weight from the rear to the front. That means that you have a HUGE load on the outside front tire, almost none on the inside rear, and not much more than that on the outside rear. The front tire grips like crazy, pinning your car to the curve you set up, and the rear end just breaks loose and tries to loop you. This is called trailing-throttle-oversteer. The simple solution is to learn how to take a curve properly, and about subtle, smooth control inputs from the wheel, gas a brake pedal.

The second issue you noted is where you are steady-state in a curve, and when you try to accelerate out, the rear end lights up, and kicks over. Simple solution: be smoother on the throttle, and don't mash it like you do at a drag strip. Cornering at speed is all about balancing the car with the wheel, throttle, and brake. Smooth is good.

You will learn all of that, and a lot more in one weekend at a NASA event.

 

[Sam Strano]

Tires. Period. That's the place to start. Once you are able to overdrive the tires, and can properly assess what "quirks" your car is exhibiting with your driving style, then you can start replacing hardware.

I have to disagree on this one. I still have stock Pirelli's on my car with 23k miles on it, and since I race on Hoosier's it's not like I can't compare to a "stickier" tire.

The issue I have with the car isn't grip, it's balance and predictability.... which tires won't help with. In fact more grip in general tends to make for more at the limit understeer, not less.

Anyone who's seen my in-car video with the data knows that I have no issue pulling G's... but frankly *I* don't drive *that* hard on the street. But I guess hard enough that I've had plenty of folks hanging on for dear life. And I average about 70 on a speed limit 45 road over 6 miles never exceeding 75 or 80 on the top end... So I don't drive slowly.

Putting more stick in the car only serves to make the suspension more confused. Adding grip makes the car roll and pitch more and faster, and those are things most hate to begin with. The first thing I did on my car was the Koni Sports... and every customer who rode in the car before I modded it further didn't believe that A.) I was on stock tires. And B.) I didn't have a lot more done. Such is the difference in how the car drove.

Fast is fast. But fast and iffy handlingly isn't much fun and can bite you. A solid platform is where to start, than better tires only work better yet.

Again, depends on you wants. I think the car has damper and roll issues that are more critical than the tires. In fact I don't at all hate the Pirelli's. Are they best tire ever? No way, but they get a bum deal because the suspension tuning is not good enough for them to work as well as they can.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Sam, I'll buy that 100%. My post was more directed at someone that is not going to be in any sort of competition setting, but interested in street manners in curves. Based on that, I would say that before replacing hardware, make sure your tires are good. While I have a different opinion on the stock rubber, I will certainly concur with your opinion about dampers.

 

[sqidds]

#1 suspension mod you can do is tires. I don't care how much HP you have, or whatever custom coil over suspension you got, your car will only perform as good as your tires.

Above is the Best "suspension" advice you will ever get.

here's some more:

As far as the cars handling goes the stock stuff is great! With good rubber they “handle” incredibly well for the street and still ride like a true Grand Touring car. If I daily drove my car I would get a set of summer tires, a little better quality shock/struts once the stock ones took a dump ad a set of swaybars. The above setup would net you a car the “handles” far better than the conditions on the road will support and you still get to keep your creature comforts.

As far as light weight goes the S197 is tough to get weight out of if you want it to be a non gutted DD. The biggest issue the car has is that it is very nose heavy.

The first solution for this is to move the battery to the trunk. The $$/gain ratio is fantastic.

If you have power seats swapping them out for some “race” buckets will shed a ton of pounds. I got a set of Recaro’s and it saved me 66lb and the Recaro’s are still a “street seat” with all of the normal adjustments. The Recaro’s are a bit pricy but Corbau (sp) makes some very affordable options. If you decide to go for seats make sure you get application specific brackets or it turns into a massive PITA

Rear seat delete kits only save 10-12lb and the interior noise goes WAY up. I ended putting my back seats back in.

You can remove the front steel bumper.

Lightweight wheels and tires pays you back in a million different ways.

I ditched my spare tire and jack also. The spare doesn’t work with my front brakes anyway. I have a high pres pump and a patch/plug kit in the trunk instead.

If you don’t drive in the rain much you can remove the rotor backing plates.

The Steeda lightweight front swaybar mount/radiator bracket saves good weight for small money

It starts getting pricy but a lightweight K-member and lower control arms like what BBR offers drops a ton of weight off of the nose too.

Lightweight driveshafts are nice but it’s a crap shoot if you will have driveline harmonics issues.

Billet aluminum flywheels can’t be beat. They save money static and in rotation so they are “double good”.

That’s all I have off of the top of my head.

 

[Kaldar142]

If you remove rear seatbelts aswell the rear seat delete is actually good for 25lbs