Issue with Steeda X11 balljoints / SLA Boss Comp LCA's

[BMR Tech]

OP has some on the way. Let's see what kinda luck he has with them.

 

[Apex50]

Can't wait too long, I have an HPDE in April. I'm willing to buy them if you're willing to sell them

 

[BMR Tech]

I don't mind selling them. They're about $122 shipped for the pair.

 

[Hvacmike]

I just installed these arms. I'm hoping I don't have the ball joint issues.

I only drove the car about 5 miles around the country block by my house. I am getting a weird feeling from the a steering while driving. The car does not return to straight after turning and the steering response is a lot less than the stock control arms.

My inner and outer tie rod ends are good, there is no play in them whatsoever. Everything is tightened.

My only observation is it looks like I have a lot of toe out. I'm going to get the car aligned this week.

Will excessive positive toe cause the steering to feel weird like that?

Also I have the steeda competition springs with tokico struts and m&m camper plates.

 

[NoTicket]

Yes positive toe will make the car twitchy and unstable. The handling characteristics of positive toe can actually be quite dangerous at high speeds as the car WANTS TO TURN. It will also cause excessive wear on your tires.

 

[Apex50]

You need an alignment after installation. If you did a bumpsteer kit then you'll need to take it to a race oriented garage that knows how to set that up also. My alignment after self install was fubar.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Interesting... When I did the extended studs, I wound up with a country mile of toe-in IIRC. Either way, you'll have way too much toe angle, and you will certainly need an alignment. While you have it on the rack, check your bumpsteer curve... Set toe to whatever you like for the baseline, then lift up on the chassis (not the control arms) so that the suspension droops about an inch or so, and recheck your toe angle. If you have a decent sized change, you'll have bump-steer issues, and should probably look at getting a kit installed.

 

[neema]

Toe out should give you more steering response. See how it is after the alignment.

 

[Hvacmike]

Thanks for the help. I'm going to dial in some toe in until I can get the car aligned.

The car almost feels like something is binding a little. I'll check when I get home and take the toe out. I guess what I'm saying is the steering doesn't feel linear at all right now. .

 

[Hvacmike]

I adjusted my toe out and the car drives fine now. I'll be getting it aligned this week sometime.

 

[neema]

I called Patrick at Watson Racing and he gave me the scoop on the Howe Industry ball joints. Like you guys have mentioned, they're threaded ball joints that come in 3 pieces: collar, threaded ball joint, and a dust boot. They're planning on getting it up on their website soon, but in case you're like me and already have wiggling ball joints that need replacement, Patrick can sell you a set over the phone.

They're pricey though. Way pricier than the proforged ball joints that BMR will sell.

$252 shipped for the pair. I've chosen to be the guinea pig. I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[captdistraction]

so Steeda changed their arms after I had ordered mine. They're shipping a fresh set as they feel they may have gone too far with the bushing durometer. I'm not completely convinced this is the issue, but they want to test that and see to take some data back to their balljoint manufacturer. I have to send my old arms back in, but I'll install their new arms and hold on to the BMR ball joints until the steeda side of this is resolved. Not terribly thrilled about reducing the durometer in those bushings, but they feel there is a minimal if no difference in overall performance with the added benefit of less stress being applied to components. I have a strange feeling this is 1) why some 2011 cars haven't had problems with their arms, and 2) ultimately, I'll be moving to the BMR proforged balljoint.

The customer service from Don over at Steeda has been great. However, I hope the test cycle on this stuff completes soon, my car's experience is one of a development racer moreso than aggressive street car, haha.

 

[BMR Tech]

Not so sure about the durometer being the culprit, but it is always possible.

If that is the case though, Proforged must be on their AAA game....as our standard A-Arms come with a combination of Delrin (yes, delrin) and 95 Durometer Poly Bushings. This combination is likely more rigid than any other combo out there, except our adjustable versions.

Our adjustables, that most road course guys use, come with a combination of Delrin and Spherical Bearings. That is about as rigid as you can possibly get.

I look forward to seeing your results, and I truly wish the best with it. I hope the new version works flawlessly!

 

[captdistraction]

I totally agree, I'd knock out the steeda X11's on the new arms up front to throw in the proforged ones that are inbound if they weren't asking me to help them solve the issue first. I'm doubtful the steeda arm bushing durometer has anything to do with anything outside of EPAS vibration on the 11 models, though I'm not sure what places the most loads on balljoints, or how much subjection to vibration they can tolerate. I imagine I'll still be able to provide feedback on the proforged soon.

They couldn't quote me what the durometer of the bushings are in the arms I have or what they are in the new arms. Hopefully I can get that info soon.

I guess I'm doing a whole K member drop here soon, since I'll need to pull the arms anyways, and I have a set of longtubes and midpipe in the garage awaiting some attention of the install type.

Any other recommendations for things to look at while I have my car (mostly) apart?

 

[Roadracer350]

I called Patrick at Watson Racing and he gave me the scoop on the Howe Industry ball joints. Like you guys have mentioned, they're threaded ball joints that come in 3 pieces: collar, threaded ball joint, and a dust boot. They're planning on getting it up on their website soon, but in case you're like me and already have wiggling ball joints that need replacement, Patrick can sell you a set over the phone.

They're pricey though. Way pricier than the proforged ball joints that BMR will sell.

$252 shipped for the pair. I've chosen to be the guinea pig. I'll let you know how it goes.

I'm really interested on how easy and user frendly these are to install. Keep us posted.

 

[Whiskey11]

Yes positive toe will make the car twitchy and unstable. The handling characteristics of positive toe can actually be quite dangerous at high speeds as the car WANTS TO TURN. It will also cause excessive wear on your tires.

I think there is a bit of confusion here as to the direction of toe and the sign associated with it. Positive toe is toe IN. Looking at your feet and putting your toes closer than your heels is toe in, that's positive toe.

Positive toe, or toe in makes the car more stable at speed because it is trying to pull the car together towards a central spot. Generally there is a reduction in steering precision with toe in as well. Spot on that excessive toe (in any direction) will kill tires.

Negative toe is toe out, which can make the car twitchy and unstable at speed but helps the car get turning.

 

[NoTicket]

Yup, I definitely had the directions reversed on the +/- in/out mapping.

 

[Apex50]

Got the BMR tall joints. Compared them to the Steedas- the diameter for control arm and knuckle are the same for both. The BMR's are longer, but I don't think enough to get near the bottom of the strut. One concern I have is that there isn't a shoulder to locate the control arm. Is this feature necessary? Seems like you're relying solely on the clamping force from the control arm. If not, do I just set the height to match the Steeda?

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Got the BMR tall joints. Compared them to the Steedas- the diameter for control arm and knuckle are the same for both. The BMR's are longer, but I don't think enough to get near the bottom of the strut. One concern I have is that there isn't a shoulder to locate the control arm. Is this feature necessary? Seems like you're relying solely on the clamping force from the control arm. If not, do I just set the height to match the Steeda?

Hmmm.... This is all by eyeball, but... Both balljoints should be press-fit into the control arms, and pressed in until the cast-in flange bottoms. On top of the control arm, both should have a snap-ring retainer. I know the Steeda (X5) does, and I'm assuming that the BMR does as well. Yes, the stud on the BMR does look longer, but if you see the machined groove on the stud, they both look the same from there to the end of the stud. As such, there should be a TON of room between the end of that stud and the strut, so no worries there. As for "installed height," There is a pinch-bolt running through the knuckle that rides in that machined groove. Slip the knuckle down the stud until the machined groove lines up with the pinch-bolt hole, then insert the bolt and tighten to spec. From the above pic, it appears that the BMR ball joint offers a slightly greater installed height than the Steeda. Plus: This raises the front roll center even higher than with the Steeda, allowing for more "drop" up front before compromising the geometry. Minus: Requires more clearance room between hub center and wheel hoop for both the ball-joint body, and you'll need more stack-up for bump-steer correction, also requiring more wheel clearance. Also puts more force laterally on the ball joint stud. I'm going to assume that BMR did their homework and that it'll all still fit inside of a "typical" 18" wheel.

 

[Apex50]

Thanks Dave, that makes sense. I'll give it a try.