let me ask a dumb intake air temp question

[rojizostang]

I've spent some time experimenting with heat exchangers and pumps, just out of curiosity mostly to see what was most effective regarding the iat2f's on my roush stage II blown vehicle. I believe I've reached the limits of the cooling ability of the stock roush manifold intercooler that lays under the tvs blower unit. Any sort of upgrade in that regard would be expensive indeed. The intercooler loop coolant temps average perhaps 6 to 7 degrees above ambient (I have an in line gauge to determine this reading). Iat2f's average perhaps 40 degrees, more or less, above ambient. BTW this a 5.0l coyote motor.

So this may be the dumbest question/idea of the century perhaps, but I've always wondered how much heat the closed pcv system adds to the iat2f's. I mean hot oily air is drawn right from the valve cover into the blower, along with the lower manifold drain that also runs back to the bottom of the blower thru a T type of arrangement. (As of yet, I'm not running a catch can). I can't even imagine how much hot oily air is being recirculated thru the intercooler via the pcv loop.

So, here's the dumb question:

Why not cool the pcv loop, via a small air to air heat exchanger or intercooler? It would be easy to accomplish as the parts are easily adaptable to splice a cooler into the loop right ahead of the blower.

Anyone have any ideas or comments, or ever tried it?

I have a general idea of how to do this, but would like to hear the comments of those who might be interested in an idea like this. Critical comments are welcome also, but I would ask that reasoning would also be provided.

thanks in advance

 

[travelers]

Interesting idea, I have a whipple 2.3 with the same pcv setup right now but have the parts to go with a catch can. I'll keep an eye on what results you have.

 

[rojizostang]

really I was hoping for some feedback, positive or negative before I try it. It would seem though the best way to determine the pcv loop temps would be to use one of those trail tech tto in line temperature gauges to determine its effectiveness, both before and after the cooler install.

Also I'm curious as to when the hot air is actually drawn into the motor....throttle open or closed or what. I'm not really sure.

 

[travelers]

DOB may have some info to add to this.

 

[jhunt47]

I know this doesn't answer or help but what boost level are you running at? Are you using the 13-14 gt500 pump?

 

[rojizostang]

I know this doesn't answer or help but what boost level are you running at? Are you using the 13-14 gt500 pump?

10 lbs and yes i'm using the late model pump

 

[slackinoff]

I have a couple of feedback points.

From some reading I have done, (DOB website) a good portion of how well the intercooler works depends on the flow in and out of the manifold portion of the intercooler. From the DOB website, a good pump can help, but the design of the intercooler/passages is the most important. This is my thinking on the matter, I might be off, I don't have any direct experience.

The PCV thing is an interesting point. I would think that unless you have a lot of blowby, then it doesn't contribute hardly anything to the IATs. It would be hard to test how much blowby you have under boost unless you were on a dyno. (Or ran a line into the cabin on a test run, :0 ) Even then, it would be better to run an "open" catch can system than cool the vapors.

Rm

 

[rojizostang]

I have a couple of feedback points.

From some reading I have done, (DOB website) a good portion of how well the intercooler works depends on the flow in and out of the manifold portion of the intercooler. From the DOB website, a good pump can help, but the design of the intercooler/passages is the most important. This is my thinking on the matter, I might be off, I don't have any direct experience.

The PCV thing is an interesting point. I would think that unless you have a lot of blowby, then it doesn't contribute hardly anything to the IATs. It would be hard to test how much blowby you have under boost unless you were on a dyno. (Or ran a line into the cabin on a test run, :0 ) Even then, it would be better to run an "open" catch can system than cool the vapors.

Rm

Yes I agree with all that, and the open breather system is of course ideal I think. The only thing with the open system is of course having to smell it all the time. Since this is my daily, I don't really want that. At least "uncatted" exhaust escapes from the rear of the vehicle and I don't really have to smell that except in the garage.

The temp of the blowby could be tested by an inline temp device like what I already use to determine intercooler loop temps. Even though it's designed for coolant/water, it would probably work long enough to determine if aftercooling blowby vapors was a affective, at least from a temperature stand point.

 

[slackinoff]

Yes I agree with all that, and the open breather system is of course ideal I think. The only thing with the open system is of course having to smell it all the time. Since this is my daily, I don't really want that. At least "uncatted" exhaust escapes from the rear of the vehicle and I don't really have to smell that except in the garage.

The temp of the blowby could be tested by an inline temp device like what I already use to determine intercooler loop temps. Even though it's designed for coolant/water, it would probably work long enough to determine if aftercooling blowby vapors was a affective, at least from a temperature stand point.

Ah yes I agree on the smell. My uncatted exhaust bothers me sometimes. Is the open system pretty bad? I run a catch can, but I am going DOB soon and thinking about an open system.

Good idea on the inline temp. But what about flow/volume? Compared to how much fresh air to how much blow by, that is what I think would matter. It could well be hot as hades but not really matter....... Like pouring a cup of boiling water into a gallon of room temp water. It won't do much.

Rm

 

[rojizostang]

yes, good points all. I don't know either from the volume aspect if there would be any negligible effect.

I suppose one way to test such an idea would be to install a temporary open system and see if there is any noticeable drop in compressed air temps. That might be a worthwhile exercise.

I still hope to hear form DOB in this regard.

The only thing I can tell you is that when we were kids we just ran breathers on stuff and it always smelled. I don't think it would be any different running an open system now. A breather on a catch can would stop the oily residue from forming but I don't think the stink could be avoided.

 

[Wes06]

Yes I agree with all that, and the open breather system is of course ideal I think. The only thing with the open system is of course having to smell it all the time. Since this is my daily, I don't really want that. At least "uncatted" exhaust escapes from the rear of the vehicle and I don't really have to smell that except in the garage.

The temp of the blowby could be tested by an inline temp device like what I already use to determine intercooler loop temps. Even though it's designed for coolant/water, it would probably work long enough to determine if aftercooling blowby vapors was a affective, at least from a temperature stand point.

You could probably use a catch can than run the outlet into a port in the exhaust. Installed correctly it'll pull a light vacuum on the hose and pull any vapor into the can, and any that gets by would burn in the exhaust

 

[skwerl]

I don't think the volume of air is enough to make any measurable difference in temps, but I would definitely run a catch can. If you get a JLT or other cheap design then I recommend you buy two and put them in line with each other. On my last car I added a second catch can because of how much oil got by the first one. The second can caught almost as much oil as the first.

 

[rojizostang]

I don't think the volume of air is enough to make any measurable difference in temps, but I would definitely run a catch can. If you get a JLT or other cheap design then I recommend you buy two and put them in line with each other. On my last car I added a second catch can because of how much oil got by the first one. The second can caught almost as much oil as the first.

Honestly I'm not all that impressed with the jlt unit. This is for an f150 however and supercharged. They simply cap off the lower manifold drain line instead of plumbing it to filter thru the catch can.

I'm thinking of building my own set up that would be cheap enough to run two cans in series. Jlt's are $139 a pop.

You could probably use a catch can than run the outlet into a port in the exhaust. Installed correctly it'll pull a light vacuum on the hose and pull any vapor into the can, and any that gets by would burn in the exhaust

This sounds like the set up I had on my old bracket car back in the day, except there was no catch can.

 

[46addict]

The only thing I can tell you is that when we were kids we just ran breathers on stuff and it always smelled. I don't think it would be any different running an open system now. A breather on a catch can would stop the oily residue from forming but I don't think the stink could be avoided.

I'm running open breathers and the only time the fumes get bad is when I'm idling with the heat vents going. Once I'm moving it's not noticeable.

What are your IAT2 temps now?

You could experiment with a Killer Chiller and try to cool the PCV loop with it. It's meant to cool down intercooler fluid/coolant so I'm not sure how it would work with air.

For a more tried and true solution, this may be it: http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=129410

 

[rojizostang]

I'm running open breathers and the only time the fumes get bad is when I'm idling with the heat vents going. Once I'm moving it's not noticeable.

What are your IAT2 temps now?

You could experiment with a Killer Chiller and try to cool the PCV loop with it. It's meant to cool down intercooler fluid/coolant so I'm not sure how it would work with air.

For a more tried and true solution, this may be it: http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=129410

iat2 temps hover around 40 degrees above ambient, give or take 5 degrees.

I'm running two roush heat exchangers now with fans. The lower one behind the bumper that I added dual 5" spahl fans to, and then the upper one in front of the radiator that has a 14" fan behind that. I appreciate the offer, but I don't think your unit will gain much over what I already have.

 

[46addict]

That isn't my unit I'm trying to sell. Notice the different screen names. Looking at it again it's sold anyway so it's a moot point.

 

[rojizostang]

That isn't my unit I'm trying to sell. Notice the different screen names. Looking at it again it's sold anyway so it's a moot point.

Oh wow thanks, I didn't even realize the different screen names. Thanks for trying to help me out though.

 

[slackinoff]

That isn't my unit I'm trying to sell. Notice the different screen names. Looking at it again it's sold anyway so it's a moot point.