Motor oil weight for a tracked Coyote?

[TheViking]

Good to know. I've read some strong convictions proclaiming imminent death to the piston squirter engines with anything more than 5w-20.

Can you share some of the sources here? Hard to imagine the engine could be that sensitive but would be interested in whatever is being said.

 

[JAJ]

Motorcraft Oil isn't all that great, regardless of the viscosity. I'd use Mobil 1 5w50 over the MC stuff.

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So Rehagen, a Ford Racing partner that builds race cars and engines and campaigns them at the top levels of motorsport, are just morons when it comes to oil?

Really?

 

[knownukes]

I ran MC-5W50 for 2 hard years in my Super Snake. At least 1 track event per month. Never saw any issues. Always had extremely high engine temps due to the supercharger. I think the RHR guys know what they are talking about.

 

[steveespo]

Motorcraft oil is fine, there are just better oils out there. I am assuming the Rehagen guys are buying in bulk drums, most of us aren't, maybe they get it at a sponsored discount or at least dealer cost, and they are probably changing it very frequently. If you are running oil on the street only you really don't have to worry other than checking the level and changing at about 10000 miles. If you are tracking the car and don't want to change oil after every hour of operation then a better oil may be better protection fo your engine.

I ran the specified 5W20 Motorcraft in my car for 1 track day and at the start of the day the idle oil pressure was 35 psi and running pressure was 78 psi. After 4 sessions idle was down to 27 and running down to 68 psi. Oil level was fine, but the effects of heat and stress on the oil caused it to shear and lose viscosity. After that I went with Mobil 1 0/40 and 0/50. Last summer I used the Motul 300V because I had multiple multi day events during the heat of the summer. Pressures remained more consistent and oil temps were steady in the 235-240 degree range (with both air to oil and water to oil coolers in series). Oil choice is a personal one for many different reasons, that's why everyone says " not another oil thread".
My $.02.
Steve

 

[Mountain]

Steve, do you have the '11 Coyote engine (with piston squirters?)

Wouldn't all of the '11 Coyote engines have squirters? The only time the Coyotes didn't have squirters, from my knowledge, is the very first '13 cars. Ford wanted to dump them for a cost reduction, but found out there was too much of a durability degredation and created too much cold start noise from the pistons so they were put back in.

 

[csamsh]

Oil quality....psssh. There isn't a whole lot of difference between brands. Napa brand and valvoline come from the SAME TANKS.

 

[Sky Render]

So Rehagen, a Ford Racing partner that builds race cars and engines and campaigns them at the top levels of motorsport, are just morons when it comes to oil?

Really?

Calm the fuck down. I never called anyone a "moron." I just saaid Motorcraft oil isn't that great. It's not even full synthetic.

Maybe Rehagen Racing uses it because they drain the crankcase after every race? Maybe they just get it for free because they're a partner? Who knows? A lot of it comes down to personal choice.

I use Royal Purple, am I a moron?

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[steveespo]

I use Royal Purple, am I a moron?

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No you're not a moron, you are Stig's retarded cousin.

There is a difference in oil quality, just not everyone needs it. When you rev your engine, keep it under load for prolonged periods and run high oil temps the pure sythetic base stocks are the way to go. If I was a drag racer I would run 0W-20 to keep low temperature friction to a minimum for 11 seconds at a time. Steve

 

[kcbrown]

Motorcraft oil is fine, there are just better oils out there. I am assuming the Rehagen guys are buying in bulk drums, most of us aren't, maybe they get it at a sponsored discount or at least dealer cost, and they are probably changing it very frequently. If you are running oil on the street only you really don't have to worry other than checking the level and changing at about 10000 miles. If you are tracking the car and don't want to change oil after every hour of operation then a better oil may be better protection fo your engine.

Right. But Rehagen stated that they get the best results with MC 5W50 versus the other oils they've tried, not that it's cheapest.

I ran the specified 5W20 Motorcraft in my car for 1 track day and at the start of the day the idle oil pressure was 35 psi and running pressure was 78 psi. After 4 sessions idle was down to 27 and running down to 68 psi. Oil level was fine, but the effects of heat and stress on the oil caused it to shear and lose viscosity.

MC 5W50 will apparently shear to a light 40 weight oil in short order, but I've not seen anything indicating that it'll shear beyond that. And, apparently, 50 weight oil that doesn't shear will result in elevated lead wear levels in at least the GT500 engine.

It's certain that Ford knows about that property of their oil and understands the consequences of it. It's highly likely that they specify their 5W50 oil for the GT track pack, Boss 302, and GT500 precisely because they expect people with those cars to use them heavily on the track, for if they didn't, then they'd simply have those cars use the 5W20 oil like all the rest.

After that I went with Mobil 1 0/40 and 0/50. Last summer I used the Motul 300V because I had multiple multi day events during the heat of the summer. Pressures remained more consistent and oil temps were steady in the 235-240 degree range (with both air to oil and water to oil coolers in series). Oil choice is a personal one for many different reasons, that's why everyone says " not another oil thread".
My $.02.
Steve

That doesn't surprise me at all. My question is what results you would have gotten with MC 5W50. I suspect it would have been similar to your Mobil 1 and Motul results.

 

[JAJ]

Calm the fuck down. I never called anyone a "moron"...

You're right, you didn't and I apologize for framing it that way. Sorry.

There's a lot of online discussion of the way that the MC 5w-50 shears to a lower viscosity in use. This discussion is usually based on the premise that shearing is bad and that means the product is bad. While the logic sounds compelling, it's pure conjecture from an engineering standpoint.

There is surprisingly little discussion of the actual performance of the MC oil in its primary role as a lubricant. What makes the Rehagen post interesting is that it says that from a straightforward lubricant performance perspective, Rehagen has concluded that the MC 5w-50 works best.

 

[07TGGT]

Wouldn't all of the '11 Coyote engines have squirters? The only time the Coyotes didn't have squirters, from my knowledge, is the very first '13 cars. Ford wanted to dump them for a cost reduction, but found out there was too much of a durability degredation and created too much cold start noise from the pistons so they were put back in.

11-12 5.0 have oil squiters, 13-14 5.0 do not.

 

[kcbrown]

You're right, you didn't and I apologize for framing it that way. Sorry.

There's a lot of online discussion of the way that the MC 5w-50 shears to a lower viscosity in use. This discussion is usually based on the premise that shearing is bad and that means the product is bad. While the logic sounds compelling, it's pure conjecture from an engineering standpoint.

Shearing will be bad if it continues beyond a certain point. I've seen no indication in the online discussions that MC 5W50 shears below a light 40 weight oil.

If it were to continue to shear until it fell below the viscosity necessary to maintain the boundary layer between moving parts, then obviously that would be very bad indeed. What people have seen on the track indicates that a 40 weight oil is about the viscosity you want in these engines on the track, and that's exactly what MC 5W50 gets you once it's sheared.

There is surprisingly little discussion of the actual performance of the MC oil in its primary role as a lubricant. What makes the Rehagen post interesting is that it says that from a straightforward lubricant performance perspective, Rehagen has concluded that the MC 5w-50 works best.

Exactly. Hence, my questions to them about how they're measuring that. I think it'll be very illuminating in this discussion if they're measuring it based on, e.g., engine teardown analysis along with oil analysis, oil pressure and temperature trends, etc. I'd expect a racing team to use all of those methods except, perhaps, for engine teardown, and I'd expect them to use that as well if they wound up needing to rebuild one or more engines, or if they decided to upgrade the internals in one or more of their engines.

 

[Gray Ghost GT]

Castrol Edge Syntec 5W50 for me.

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/we...nthetic-motor-oil-(1-quart)-castrol_8020612-p

 

[JAJ]

My theory is that Ford chose 5w-50 for sports car use because dealers put 40 wt in trucks. If they spec'd 5w-40 the dealers would shovel 15w40 heavy duty engine oil in at least half the time.

 

[Mountain]

11-12 5.0 have oil squiters, 13-14 5.0 do not.

I haven't followed the 2014 changes, but I'm damn sure that they took out the oil squirters, initially, for 2013, but put them back in after a month or two of 2013 into production later. This information comes from someone in Ford I spoke with earlier this summer that works closely with the 5.0L.

 

[Rehagen Racing]

FWIW - we buy our oil right from a Ford dealer by the case. 12 qt cases to be specific. We are a motorcraft dealer so if anyone needs oil, please let us know. We have dyno'd our cars with several different brands of oil. The Ford Motorcraft oil gave us the best, most consistent results. We can run any brand, type, weight of oil we want. There are no rules that dictate the oil we have to run, in any of our race series.

We do run the large Ford Racing road race pan, and our oil cooler kit. We generally get 1-2 events on a fill (depending on variables). The oil is usually fine when we drain, but it's done as service and preventative maintenance.

The rest of the oils (trans, diff) are mobil 1.

If anyone figures out how to get free oil, please let us know....

 

[2013kAB]

I haven't followed the 2014 changes, but I'm damn sure that they took out the oil squirters, initially, for 2013, but put them back in after a month or two of 2013 into production later. This information comes from someone in Ford I spoke with earlier this summer that works closely with the 5.0L.

So how do we know if we have them?

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[07TGGT]

I haven't followed the 2014 changes, but I'm damn sure that they took out the oil squirters, initially, for 2013, but put them back in after a month or two of 2013 into production later. This information comes from someone in Ford I spoke with earlier this summer that works closely with the 5.0L.

I think you're confused. Unless you can provide definite proof.

There is some early production 2013s that have oil squiters, but that's it. They did not put oil squiters back in 2013-2014 YM.

 

[Pentalab]

So is there ANY eng differences between the plane jane GT...and the track pack version of the GT ?? Both have the same coyote eng. As far as I know, they are identical.

It appears if you beat on it....(or advertise it as a "track -pack car") then 5W-50 is to be used. I'm talking strictly about the 13/14 GT here.... NOT the boss 302 /Gt-500 cars.

If that's the case...it's probably either a warranty issue..or a weasel clause. IF the oil is getting really hot on the track the real fix is an oil cooler..with it's own T stat. The FRPP oil cooler that uses hot eng coolant to "cool" the eng oil will work..but it also increases the eng coolant temps by as much as 20 deg F... hence the use of the bigger eng rads.

Another option might be to use a lower T stat..like a 160 or 170F unit..... instead of the oem 180 F stat.

 

[2013MustangGT]

@Pentalab

My GT with track package oil pressure is higher than the standard GT. My car idles at 30 psi and at 2000 rpm is 80 psi, WOT 100 psi (gauge only goes to 100 psi). I asked the service dept. and they said it was because it's the track package. Not much of a real reason and I didn't dig deeper. Although, I have searched the internet to no avail on the higher oil pressure for track package GT, I have found that the 302s run with higher oil pressures similar to my GT.

Also, there are a lot of parts you can purchase for the coyote engine that are on the Boss engine, e.g.. heads, cams, oil cooler, pistons, and the list goes on. Just a thought would be that since the track package GT designed use is for the track they made them similar to how the 302 engines would run and thats why they added the oil cooler and the Boss radiator. However, this is all just speculation on my part. I used 5w-50 for my oil and change the oil after 4 track days.

Also, the oil cooler using the engine coolant is not that big of a deal. My engine runs at 200 degrees F at the track and 190 degrees F on the street. I had thought of getting the FFRP BOSS 302 EXTREME DUTY OIL COOLER KIT -- M-6642-MBA. However, I don't think I need it.