My Magazine “Advertising” Smoke & Mirrors Rant

[Department Of Boost]

One day on SVTP a vendor bumped 27 of his vendor threads in one hour. In case you didn't know, at SVTP when you click the 'new posts' link you only get the last 100 threads (about 4 hours worth). 1/4 of my unread threads were all from one vendor.

That vendor is also a sponsor here but he doesn't pull that shit on this forum.

I remember when SVT was cool....in 2002-2003.

I don't go on many forums anymore (I should be though). They drive me crazy. I can handle this board and the Bullet.

I should be posting DOB propaganda all over the place all day every day, but I just can't. Maybe that is why I don't make any $$$.

 

[BlackBullitt1390]

Put me in the column of disappointed KB customers as well.

I woke up to the CAI joke 10 years ago with my 2004. A friend had a CAI and exhaust on his 2003 and my bone stock 2004 laid down more RWHP than his. Never did make sense to me to install a chrome metal pipe in a hot engine bay.

 

[Riptide]

KB sucks ass. Their blowers are just giant heat generators that underperform.

^^ This

I hated my 2.6 in the summer. 140 degree IATs while cruising @ 40mph.

 

[weather man]

I remember when SVT was cool....in 2002-2003.

I don't go on many forums anymore (I should be though). They drive me crazy. I can handle this board and the Bullet.

I should be posting DOB propaganda all over the place all day every day, but I just can't. Maybe that is why I don't make any $$$.

I get that it costs to be a official vendor, but they are just stepping on each others crank!

 

[speedfreak1000]

funny thing is a was just reading this article. im a total dumbass when it comes to SC'ers but I was wondering if they can do all this they why doesn't every GT500 owner put one of these on right away.

Ive been planning to get a SC for about a year as soon as money lets me and I did keep looking at the KB's. when time comes i'll have to do more research and ask a lot of questions.

 

[o2sys]

The Shelby KR has a KB blower so it must be good?! It says it on their website!

 

[Department Of Boost]

The Shelby KR has a KB blower so it must be good?! It says it on their website!

Their blowers aren't bad really (they could be better though). KB's problem is their intake manifolds and especially IC's. Everyone thinks the blower is the most important part of the equation, WRONG! Boost is easy these days, lots of choices there. The biggest feature people should be looking at when getting a blower kit is the IC design. That will literally make or break how the car works.

I would rather have something that makes 600 all the time, no matter what. Then something that makes 750 but is always pulling timing because it is running too hot all the time.....and not really making 750 anymore. IC design is what matters here.

 

[Unreal]

You think the mustangs are bad, try a Camaro kit out. The IC is even smaller because of the lower hood. It is pure junk. Spent 6 months and thousands trying to get any power out of a 3.6LC KB. Only made ~700rwhp after dual meth nozzles, custom ice tank, upgraded pump, upgraded HE. Swapped on a Ysi, and gained 250rwhp, dropped all the added weight, and car was MUCH faster, no issues with heat anymore. KB is nothing but fancy bling for those who are dumb.

 

[blownGTvert]

You think the mustangs are bad, try a Camaro kit out. The IC is even smaller because of the lower hood. It is pure junk. Spent 6 months and thousands trying to get any power out of a 3.6LC KB. Only made ~700rwhp after dual meth nozzles, custom ice tank, upgraded pump, upgraded HE. Swapped on a Ysi, and gained 250rwhp, dropped all the added weight, and car was MUCH faster, no issues with heat anymore. KB is nothing but fancy bling for those who are dumb.

Be careful with general statements like that. I'm far from "dumb" and actually have made some respectable power with my KB 2.8.

 

[Unreal]

That was a bit harsh, but I stand by they are for people who don't do enough research. There is simply just better blower out there, for less money. Can you make good power? Sure, with enough mods and money. I got the KB Camaro I was working on up to almost 800rwhp on a cold ice packed pull, but it still gained 250rwhp with no ice and would do that time and time again pull after pull, not just one glory pull.

I bet with a whipple, TVS, etc you can match or beat your numbers and would have spent less money. That doesn't even bring into account centris or turbos which would make even more.

My experience with them has been so bad I get a bit heated (ahah, heated).

 

[flyfaster1]

I see what you did there... nice

 

[Grabber Blue 5.0]

I had a really bad experience with KB myself years ago. Sold the blower and bought a Whipple. Best thing I ever did.

 

[Department Of Boost]

That was a bit harsh, but I stand by they are for people who don't do enough research. There is simply just better blower out there, for less money. Can you make good power? Sure, with enough mods and money. I got the KB Camaro I was working on up to almost 800rwhp on a cold ice packed pull, but it still gained 250rwhp with no ice and would do that time and time again pull after pull, not just one glory pull.

I bet with a whipple, TVS, etc you can match or beat your numbers and would have spent less money. That doesn't even bring into account centris or turbos which would make even more.

My experience with them has been so bad I get a bit heated (ahah, heated).

There is only one setup (PD blower) that will make more than a KB 2.8 on the 3v, and that only just became available. If big power is the goal until recently it was the KB or the KB.

I have yet to see someone make more than the KB can make with a Centri on the 3v. Billy may do it though when he is on the dyno next.

And I know he hates turbo(s).

 

[Pentalab]

Why don't you buy the KB IC... and evaluate it yourself ? Don't be surprised if they buy one of your IC's, + coated manifold..then copy it, and rip off any of your other ideas /concepts, along the way.

K bells site is a hoot....reminds me of a chinese menu. Per k bells site, LT's don't offer any improvement at all..none..and ditto with high flow cats..on a 3V 05-10 car. If you read the fine print, buried in there....they tested LT's with 1" primarys, 1 7/8" primary..and 2" primary....and all 3 with a 3" collector. IMO, the correct size would be 1 5/8" with a 2.5" collector. Like who the heck even makes a LT with a 1" primary?

K bell changes boost by swapping various size blower pulleys...and uses the same K bell tune on all of em. ( 05-10 cars). How can that be ? VMP tells me Bell does it by throwing a ton of fuel at it. They run real rich when in the lower boost modes.

Spend an eve reading throug the K bell site....and its almost like they are dictating to you...reading you the riot act..and that they invented the blower. Now don't do something silly, like install LT's..cuz K bell wont' provide a tune for em....which means you need your own tuner...... = no more K bell warranty.

 

[crownaviation]

Don't offer a IC upgrade.

Why the F not???? I looked at the magazine and it appears they use the same lousy small intercooler fittings. WTF? Can't remember but is the GT500 inlet/outlet restricted by room or design? I remember I had issues with the M112 termi blower as it was limited on room to go bigger.

Well, if you do NOT offer a better intercooler and provide real numbers (that would sell to people like me) they YOU are the FOOL...

I have only had a couple bad encounters with KB. They were both of the attitude "fuck you little guy". No, fuck you. I have sold a couple dozen other kits since then and continue to sell them. They sure as SHIT do not have KB on the side and doubt they EVER will. In the long run that bullshit will ruin them if they allow it to continue. I rarely give second or third chances as a customer.

 

[crownaviation]

These guys don't have their 3V tuning clear and plan to offer '15 tunes, amazing.

They did not say it would "RUN" lol..

 

[Timmbo]

Gee....sometimes I wonder just how DOES KB stay in business?! Must be all the "fake" propaganda Kool Aide people keep drinking despite a shitty product right? Come on now lol. Really?

Jason, as much as I respect your quest for perfection and efficiency beyond most peoples wildest dreams, not everybody wants to make a bagillion horsepowers with a PD blower and spend almost 10k for a DOB Rspec kit to do it. You and I have had discussions before I made my decision on what to buy at the time and it all boiled down to your product being months and months delayed combined with the high cost. Don't get me wrong, I have seen what comes out of your shop and it's beautiful quality and improvements are constantly in flux. I agree that is something that EVERY company should do. Constantly innovate. Are there things KB could do better? Yup. Whipple and Roush? Yup. Why hasn't Roush or Whipple stepped up with a blower bigger than a 2.3 for a 3V??? Doesn't sound like innovation to me. Sounds pretty damn stagnant considering how many 3v's are out there. But yet KB offers a 2.8 unit when nobody else does. Hmmm? Sounds like KB offered something nobody else would. Doesn't sound like a company that sits on their ass to me. Now, is it to "your" spec? Nope. But for the vast majority it gets the job done very well for the people running them in their efficiency range, not spinning it to the moon trying to make a bagillion horsepowers. THAT is what the Rspec is for!

Like others I'm perfectly happy with my KB. A big 2.8L, polished, liquid cooled complete kit in a box making a leisurely 726 rwhp on a lowly 16 psi running E85 and low IATs for only 6200.00 bucks to my doorstep? I'll take it! And guess what?? They "stock" these things as inventory on the shelf ready to buy lol! Is it the right blower for 1000HP? Nope. But at 7-800 rwhp, the 2.8L does it extremely efficiently with my setup. It's all I care to have for a non-tracked weekend toy and there are a lot of us out there perfectly happy with that especially on a 6k budget.

Jason you definitely have a passionate drive, some great products and ideas. I'm with you on that 100%. But ya gotta quit all the ranting and bashing of your competitors. It just makes you look bad. I get what your saying, but people that don't know you and your business are going to see all that in a negative light. Instead of bashing, get proactive. Your a mad scientist that needs to get out of the lab for a while LOL! Get in some magazines. Run the Rspec on the track and get some press. Hire somebody to create a professional website with online ordering etc. Most importantly build up some inventory. There are a lot of people out there that are impulse buyers. Your losing out big time. Nobody wants to wait and wait. Your a smart guy and a great innovator, but dude.....your marketing sucks. Hell I didn't know you made a 10 rib belt drive kit for the KB until a friend told me! Get what I'm saying??? You should be selling stuff like crazy, but your not and it's the lack of marketing that is really slowing things down. I understand all this takes capital to do. Try finding some investors. You have good products so it shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Why the F not????

I didn't say I wasn't going to be offering one. Only that I didn't yet.

I looked at the magazine and it appears they use the same lousy small intercooler fittings. WTF? Can't remember but is the GT500 inlet/outlet restricted by room or design?

Yes, same lousy .55" fittings/restrictions. You could make the IC 400% bigger and if you don't address the restriction is will not perform any better. It is restricted by the "water manifold/distribution block" that feeds the IC. We are solving this by making a replacement "water manifold/distribution block" (I need to come up with a better name for that thing) from scratch with 1" restrictions. Maybe 1.25" if we can stuff them in there, but I doubt it.

Well, if you do NOT offer a better intercooler and provide real numbers (that would sell to people like me) they YOU are the FOOL...

We will have a monster upgrade for the GT500 by spring. I'll probably still be a fool though.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Gee....sometimes I wonder just how DOES KB stay in business?! Must be all the "fake" propaganda Kool Aide people keep drinking despite a shitty product right? Come on now lol. Really?

Jason, as much as I respect your quest for perfection and efficiency beyond most peoples wildest dreams, not everybody wants to make a bagillion horsepowers with a PD blower and spend almost 10k for a DOB Rspec kit to do it. You and I have had discussions before I made my decision on what to buy at the time and it all boiled down to your product being months and months delayed combined with the high cost. Don't get me wrong, I have seen what comes out of your shop and it's beautiful quality and improvements are constantly in flux. I agree that is something that EVERY company should do. Constantly innovate. Are there things KB could do better? Yup. Whipple and Roush? Yup. Why hasn't Roush or Whipple stepped up with a blower bigger than a 2.3 for a 3V??? Doesn't sound like innovation to me. Sounds pretty damn stagnant considering how many 3v's are out there. But yet KB offers a 2.8 unit when nobody else does. Hmmm? Sounds like KB offered something nobody else would. Doesn't sound like a company that sits on their ass to me. Now, is it to "your" spec? Nope. But for the vast majority it gets the job done very well for the people running them in their efficiency range, not spinning it to the moon trying to make a bagillion horsepowers. THAT is what the Rspec is for!

Like others I'm perfectly happy with my KB. A big 2.8L, polished, liquid cooled complete kit in a box making a leisurely 726 rwhp on a lowly 16 psi running E85 and low IATs for only 6200.00 bucks to my doorstep? I'll take it! And guess what?? They "stock" these things as inventory on the shelf ready to buy lol! Is it the right blower for 1000HP? Nope. But at 7-800 rwhp, the 2.8L does it extremely efficiently with my setup. It's all I care to have for a non-tracked weekend toy and there are a lot of us out there perfectly happy with that especially on a 6k budget.

Jason you definitely have a passionate drive, some great products and ideas. I'm with you on that 100%. But ya gotta quit all the ranting and bashing of your competitors. It just makes you look bad. I get what your saying, but people that don't know you and your business are going to see all that in a negative light. Instead of bashing, get proactive. Your a mad scientist that needs to get out of the lab for a while LOL! Get in some magazines. Run the Rspec on the track and get some press. Hire somebody to create a professional website with online ordering etc. Most importantly build up some inventory. There are a lot of people out there that are impulse buyers. Your losing out big time. Nobody wants to wait and wait. Your a smart guy and a great innovator, but dude.....your marketing sucks. Hell I didn't know you made a 10 rib belt drive kit for the KB until a friend told me! Get what I'm saying??? You should be selling stuff like crazy, but your not and it's the lack of marketing that is really slowing things down. I understand all this takes capital to do. Try finding some investors. You have good products so it shouldn't be a problem.

I think your missing the point of the thread Tim. I never said that the 2.8L KB is junk. I never even said it was not the best option for some people (in fact, I think I defended it above). This thread is about magazine "tech" articles and I used KB's smoke and mirrors crap about their GT500 IC as an example.

The KB 2.8L is a great blower in certain situations. It has one thing the others don't, displacement. For running 700-800hp on e85 in a street car it is a fantastic out of the box solution. Really, it's the only solution. For what you are using it for I'm sure it's great.

That said, are you going to defend the 2.6L KB and the GT500 IC "upgrade"? I would be interested in hearing about that. (this is me giving you a hard time, all in good fun).

KB does some stuff well, and some stuff not so well. My real issue with KB is when they do something not so well they try and pass it off as fantastic with double speak/smoke and mirrors. I can see right through it so it doesn't effect me, but I get frustrated when I see people without enough knowledge base buy into it. And in the case the magazine enabling it.

 

[Rasmus]

I'm not a fan of KB either, and I don't like MM&FF.

May I instead recommend:
http://www.racecar-engineering.com/
http://www.racetechmag.com/