okay so WTF?

[Kaldar142]

Also what do you think of steeda adj. endlinks? I've heard from people it increases the steering response nicely

 

[EagleStroker]

Well it's my professional opinion that it's pretty blatantly obvious the lack of this is causing your issues :

http://www.agentfortyseven.com/S197/suspension.html

And if it doesn't fix it, meh, needed to be changed anyways

 

[DusterRT]

Well it's my professional opinion that it's pretty blatantly obvious the lack of this is causing your issues :

http://www.agentfortyseven.com/S197/suspension.html

And if it doesn't fix it, meh, needed to be changed anyways

Ya know I gotta say I never priced out the A47 SLA setup..I always assumed they'd be at roughly the same price point at Griggs, but at $3500 it's (comparatively) bargain-like and I'm surprised I never hear of people running it..

 

[Kaldar142]

the price suprised me aswell, i thought it would be much more expensive

 

[EagleStroker]

Haha sorry for de-railing the thread. Back to your regularly scheduled programming

 

[trill gear head]

Does it install yourself while giving you the best head of your life? For 3k I'd expect nothing less.

 

[Pony DNA]

So, for optimum handling i should keep them level?

Also, i have not started working on my car yet BUT, i noticed that the passenger side rear wheel is farther back then the driver side wheel, which they are BOTH more rearward then they should be.

WTF?!?! I'll pull the relocation brackets off tomorrow and see what it does.

What Adj. LCAs would you recommend? the maximum motorsports ones look nice

Kaldar,

Yes for a street or track with turns levels is usually the best setting to use IF you can get then adjusted that way. Sometimes the combination of ride height and LCA bracket will not allow you to get the LCA's perfectly level so a very slight up or down angle is O.K. but try to get them level, no more than a degree down hill towards the axle. Given your power level I'd suggest up hill rather than down hill if you have to make a choice. Better to give up a little bit of off the line grip than to toss the car in a corner due to a bit too much oversteer or throttle.

HTH!

 

[Pony DNA]

Also what do you think of steeda adj. endlinks? I've heard from people it increases the steering response nicely

Kaldar,

Steeda adjustable end-links for the front anti-roll bar, there are two different versions they offer. One is a normal race style rod-end piece so they have all of the limitations of a rod-end joint. The race version carries NVH into the car and has a limited range of articulation. The limited range of free movement is a real problem for a street car which has to navigate tighter turns. The limited range of articulation limits your ability to steer the car without bending the parts it is attached to which is obviously a very bad problem to have.

The other Steeda offering is called the "street" version which uses new technology miniature metal and resin balljoints. These balljoints have a much wider range of free articulation, more than enough to allow the S197 steering rack to go full lock with out having to bind or bend any suspension parts. This is a good feature for this part IMO. Also these balljoints do not increase NVH so they are quiet just like the non adjustable stock pieces are. I have had a pair of the s"treet" links installed on my car for years, they work fine.

Adjustable end-links do not change the way the car responds to steering. All an adjustable end-link can do is allow you to adjust the length of the link to either add a preload on the anti-roll bar or set it to neutral. Some combinations of the way a chassis was made or crashed can cause the anti-roll bars to be pre-loaded making the car handle differently when turning one direction or the other. Additionally cars with coilovers that have been corner weighted can produce some pre-load on the anti-roll bar even with a perfectly square chassis. An adjustable end-link allow you to dial the pre-load out of the anti-roll bar to let the car handle and behave the same turning left or right.

HTH!

 

[Pony DNA]

Ya know I gotta say I never priced out the A47 SLA setup..I always assumed they'd be at roughly the same price point at Griggs, but at $3500 it's (comparatively) bargain-like and I'm surprised I never hear of people running it..

DusterRT,

I'm not certain they are readily available to buy yet. A47 showed their SLA a couple of years ago and while it is on their website for sale I'm not sure you can just buy them off the shelf. I could be wrong but the Griggs setup is a better known SLA setup and I think people may just be more comfy with them. The A47 SLA I saw installed on a car at Knotts acouple of years ago looked nearly perfect. It appeared to be strong enough for street use (but only a guesstimate, I don't know it was engineered for the abuse of street use) unlike the BMR K-member and front control arms which look like a liability suit waiting to happen to me.

HTH!

 

[Pony DNA]

Does it install yourself while giving you the best head of your life? For 3k I'd expect nothing less.

Hi trill gear head,

The A47 SLA is DIRT CHEAP! You can barely buy a pair of 2800 series Koni inverted strut dampers for that kind of money!

Cheers!

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Pony: Just as an FYI, Ernesto Roco (AI/X) swapped out his Griggs SLA for the A47 SLA as part of a sponsorship deal, and shaved something like 3 seconds off the lap record (both personal and track!) at Willow Springs. That was on the maiden, shakedown outing. Not saying there's anything wrong with the Griggs SLA at all, Roco also had a new mill in the car with a hairdryer on it, so... If I wasn't in a class-restricted situation, I would be looking hard at that setup, but if I slapped it in my car, that would class me up with tube-frame silhouette cars, which ain't gonna happen...

For that kind of money, it is a KILLER deal.

 

[Pony DNA]

Pony: Just as an FYI, Ernesto Roco (AI/X) swapped out his Griggs SLA for the A47 SLA as part of a sponsorship deal, and shaved something like 3 seconds off the lap record (both personal and track!) at Willow Springs. That was on the maiden, shakedown outing. Not saying there's anything wrong with the Griggs SLA at all, Roco also had a new mill in the car with a hairdryer on it, so... If I wasn't in a class-restricted situation, I would be looking hard at that setup, but if I slapped it in my car, that would class me up with tube-frame silhouette cars, which ain't gonna happen...

For that kind of money, it is a KILLER deal.

Hi SGDave,

So are the A47 SLA kits readily available? They are so reasonably priced that I cannot believe they include a pair of Penske dampers! Yeah I read about that but I figured it was the fresh motor and hair dryer. But what that tells me is that the A47 SLA is at least capable of comparable performance as the Griggs SLA. As I posted previously for that kind of money the A47 SLA is really dirt cheap.

Cheers!

 

[DusterRT]

They are so reasonably priced that I cannot believe they include a pair of Penske dampers!

Haha yeah, I kept looking for the footnote "Dampers sold separately" or "shown with optional dampers" or something..

 

[EagleStroker]

Dumb question, but in a street application would you ever see the benefit of an SLA?

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Honestly, no... The main "selling point" are the bump and rebound camber-gain curves, in that as the suspension compresses, the camber goes more negative, keeping the tire flat to the track, and as it droops, the camber goes more positive, effectively counteracting body roll, and keeps the tire flat to the track. For a street appliction, it's beyond "excessive overkill," and i doubt that you'd ever use more than 2% of it's potential. On the flip side, you have a load of rod-end components you are exposing to rain, snow, grime, potholes, railroad tracks, etc., that they were never really designed for, and will wear prematurely. With that whole metal-to-metal-to-frame load path, I would bet that NVH skyrockets, as well. I can't say for sure, since the only Griggs-equipped car I've been in was on a VERY nice track, so....

Bad camber gain:

Good camber gain:

Obviously, with the F1 chassis, roll is nowhere near as pronounced as it is with our "tutu-wearing-hippos," but the principle is identical, and you'll notice that the front tires are both dead-nuts flat to the track, despite the fact that he's deep into a corner. You can SEE the scrub radius on the fronts, but they're just tracking flat.

 

[Pony DNA]

Honestly, no... The main "selling point" are the bump and rebound camber-gain curves, in that as the suspension compresses, the camber goes more negative, keeping the tire flat to the track, and as it droops, the camber goes more positive, effectively counteracting body roll, and keeps the tire flat to the track. For a street appliction, it's beyond "excessive overkill," and i doubt that you'd ever use more than 2% of it's potential. On the flip side, you have a load of rod-end components you are exposing to rain, snow, grime, potholes, railroad tracks, etc., that they were never really designed for, and will wear prematurely. With that whole metal-to-metal-to-frame load path, I would bet that NVH skyrockets, as well. I can't say for sure, since the only Griggs-equipped car I've been in was on a VERY nice track, so....

Bad camber gain:

Good camber gain:

Obviously, with the F1 chassis, roll is nowhere near as pronounced as it is with our "tutu-wearing-hippos," but the principle is identical, and you'll notice that the front tires are both dead-nuts flat to the track, despite the fact that he's deep into a corner. You can SEE the scrub radius on the fronts, but they're just tracking flat.

Hi SGDave,

Probilby true but I bet you could get it to ride really nicely and still stick and handle pretty well while setup with a lowered ride height and not keep bottoming the suspension out all over the place.

Cheers!

 

[Bizzyb0nes]

This is what I love about this site...great tech without the asshole nature of cornercarvers.com...and gobs of helpful insight from tons of people...sorry to hijack..back on topic!

 

[Pony DNA]

This is what I love about this site...great tech without the asshole nature of cornercarvers.com...and gobs of helpful insight from tons of people...sorry to hijack..back on topic!

Bizzy,

Hey now, don't be hating on the carvers just because they think you need to spell check everything you post never mind the grammar!

I've been accused of being a condescending asshole because I don't believe in kissing asses and am perfectly willing to call a spade a spade, no offense. If a product is badly designed and/or poorly fabricated I feel badly for folks who bought the things without asking anybody with a brain or who has seen or used them but not too badly. But please whatever you do don't try to defend poorly fabricated and poorly designed suspension parts because it's shiny and you already bought one at a big discount after other folks and I told you it was not so good or flat out sucked. I have ZERO use for poorly made shiny bling suspension parts and have said so many times. I also do not waste my money on fake areo parts and body kits that just add weight and reduce your ground clearance but hey that's just me. I figure if you don't like it there are other threads to read. After all that's what I do why can't other folks do the same?

Well at least I don't use a lot of profanity.

Cheers!

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Pony: Oh, I agree, that for street usage, you could set up the SLA to ride nicely, and it certainly will stick well, I think we can all agree on that. The real question is why would you want to? On the street, I doubt that any of us are using more than 5-10% of the "traction circle" available with the strut setup, so upping the ante to a SLA front end would mean you're using even less of the available net grip. It would be akin to using a 24' Freightliner truck to go to the corner store to get a bottle of soda... You know FOR SURE that you'll have plenty of room to carry it home, but so what? For a DD car, or a car that sees only occasional track days, SLA is pure overkill, and the money spent on it (and it's maintenance) could be more profitably spent on registering for more events! For a no-compromise racer, though, that's a whole different matter.

Oh, and by the way, you should have had a semi-colon before your subordinate clause in your first sentence. For pennance, please post a nice recepie for Chilean Sea Bass... ;-)

CC does have it's cast of characters, but some of the things I like about that site are the insistance on doing your own searches, AND the fact that you don't have to translate from "texting" into English... You know what I mean. You write clearly, but you've read some of the other posts around here and other sites, and it can be a task just to understand what the hell is being said...

 

[Pony DNA]

Pony: Oh, I agree, that for street usage, you could set up the SLA to ride nicely, and it certainly will stick well, I think we can all agree on that. The real question is why would you want to? On the street, I doubt that any of us are using more than 5-10% of the "traction circle" available with the strut setup, so upping the ante to a SLA front end would mean you're using even less of the available net grip. It would be akin to using a 24' Freightliner truck to go to the corner store to get a bottle of soda... You know FOR SURE that you'll have plenty of room to carry it home, but so what? For a DD car, or a car that sees only occasional track days, SLA is pure overkill, and the money spent on it (and it's maintenance) could be more profitably spent on registering for more events! For a no-compromise racer, though, that's a whole different matter.

Oh, and by the way, you should have had a semi-colon before your subordinate clause in your first sentence. For pennance, please post a nice recepie for Chilean Sea Bass... ;-)

CC does have it's cast of characters, but some of the things I like about that site are the insistance on doing your own searches, AND the fact that you don't have to translate from "texting" into English... You know what I mean. You write clearly, but you've read some of the other posts around here and other sites, and it can be a task just to understand what the hell is being said...

Hi SGDave,

Well I didn't say an SLA front end on an S197 was a good idea for a DD street car but if you can afford it what could it hurt? I mean people drive Ferrari's for daily drivers too and give them to their arm candy for presents. But I guess if I could really afford to put an SLA front end on my S197 I would be driving a Corvette. JK! Of course a lot of people complain about the difference in price between 89 and 91 octane around here and it is my opinion that if $2.00 a tank load is a deal breaker you can't really afford the car.

Of course you won't see an SLA front-end on my car and even if I could justify an SLA front end I think I would rather explore some of the better inverted struts like Koni's 2800's. I'm not complaining about having a strut suspension and think I understand them fairly well after owning, driving and modifying various German Fords, VW's, Audis, Porsche 911's and BMW 2002 and 3 series cars all of which had strut front ends. But I'll admit to being a slow learner.

O.K. here is my very popular 1 hour Chilean Sea Bass recipe but any firm white fish can be used:
Ingredients

• 1/2 cup chopped shallots
• 2 tablespoons minced garlic
• 1/2 teaspoon red chili flakes
• 1 teaspoon cayenne pepper
• 1 cup clam juice
• 1 cup white wine
• 2 tablespoons honey
• 1 sheet gelatin, bloomed
• 4 Chilean sea bass fillets, skinned

Directions

Saute shallots, garlic, red chili flakes, and cayenne pepper in a large dry skillet or saucepan over medium heat until fragrant. Add clam juice, white wine, honey, and gelatin and reduce for about 45 minutes.

Preheat a grill to medium, using mesquite wood. Place bass on grill and quickly sear the fish. Then brush the sauce on the fish and return the fish to the fire and cook until fish is opaque and a knife slides in easily, making sure to brush on the sauce each time the fish is turned.
Remove sea bass from heat and serve with fresh vegetables and starch of choice.

Oh I know they are a bunch of stuck up snobs at the Corner Carvers site but they are our snobs and I love to hate them.


Oh and Bon Appetit!