Roush Trak Pak

[fhlh]

With the coupon code taking 15% off 1500.00 the Roush Trak Pak seems like a pretty good deal... Anyone have any experience with this system?
Anyone know what the actual components are?
I've done a search and cannot find any info.

I'm not looking to SLAM the car, but I would like to do the occasional AUTO-X/DE as well as still be able to cruise around on a nice day without getting the crap beat out of me.

I do not like my current FRPP springs, I feel the car sits a tad too low and it is effecting the handling (lots of lean). Using FRPP struts/shocks is not helping either, IMHO.

I figure the Roush Trak Pak -15% is a pretty solid investment for all that you get.



http://store.roushperformance.com/detail.aspx?ID=1070

• Includes front and rear adjustable dampers, matching elastomer jounce bumpers, front and rear springs, front and rear jounce bumpers, and camber plates
• Features high tensile strength linear rate spring with tender coils (not sure I need my coils tendered)
  
• Adjustable rebound, camber place angle (up to 3 degrees negative camber), and ride height to adjust between street and track use
• Part #403151

Any thoughts and ideas are appreciated.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

That doesn't sound like a bad deal at all, to me...

Just FYI, "tender springs" are flat-wound springs that sit under (or over) a coilover spring, and only function to keep the spring aligned with the seat when unloaded, like in the air, or if you droop the suspension beyond the free-length of the main spring. They have a spring rate of something like 5lbs/in, and when the car is sitting normally on the suspension, are crushed flat into coil-bind. They will have NO effect on the way the car handles, and should not be considered a "bad thing" if one design uses them, and another doesn't.

 

[foolio2k4]

solid deal. You probably wont find a new coilover set for around that price. I say jump on it! and let us know.

 

[Sam Strano]

I hate to be a nay-sayer.... but what do you know really about that kit???

What are the spring rates? Who makes the shocks? What kind of warranty? $1500, or even @ $1275... isn't that smoking a deal IMHO.

I mean for way under $1500 you could get Koni Sports (what I use) with a lifetime warranty, camber plates and a really good set of springs. FWIW, I think coil-overs are over hyped... the dampers and the rate matter. The cross-weight of the cars is actually quite good out of the box.

You could get D-Specs which at least are a known commodity unlike the shocks in the Roush kit. I'm not recommending this necessarily. You could look at KW Variant 3's which are coil-over/weight jackers and split double adjustables for under $2000.

Seriously, you need only consider what kind of performance I get from a FRPP kit with camber and Koni Sports to see you don't need coil-overs. I'd ideally love to change springs and bars--and have on my own car, but I'm stuck with the FRPP stuff due to rules in the Shelby.

 

[Cookiemonster]

Sam, what would you do with your stang if you had no limits? aside from a SLA front end..

 

[fhlh]

I hate to be a nay-sayer.... but what do you know really about that kit???

What are the spring rates? Who makes the shocks? What kind of warranty? $1500, or even @ $1275... isn't that smoking a deal IMHO.

Anyone know what the actual components are?
Still waiting on the answer

I mean for way under $1500 you could get Koni Sports (what I use) with a lifetime warranty, camber plates and a really good set of springs. FWIW, I think coil-overs are over hyped... the dampers and the rate matter. The cross-weight of the cars is actually quite good out of the box.

You could get D-Specs which at least are a known commodity unlike the shocks in the Roush kit. I'm not recommending this necessarily. You could look at KW Variant 3's which are coil-over/weight jackers and split double adjustables for under $2000.

Seriously, you need only consider what kind of performance I get from a FRPP kit with camber and Koni Sports to see you don't need coil-overs. I'd ideally love to change springs and bars--and have on my own car, but I'm stuck with the FRPP stuff due to rules in the Shelby.

I've considered the KONI route as well and would replace the strut mounts.
When are the sports going to be available again?? I hear supplies are low.
So with the Koni's and FRPP I should have a more "compliant" suspension.
Right not if just feels sketching, especially at speed, turning on anything with undulations.. 780.00 + 300 for mounts = 1030.00... hmmm
Worth considering.

Thanks for the input

 

[Philostang]

Well, if you're asking who makes their dampers and springs, I've got zip for you.

If you're asking "can I trust Roush," then I have anecdotal evidence for you. I've seen an S197 Roush Stage 3 on track kicking the living snot out of every C5 Corvette he encountered. That was equipped with their Stage 3 set up, not the upgraded Trak Pak suspension components. The owner of the car raved about how balanced and easy to drive the car was to drive at the limit. Of course, to get this set up you have to add in the sway bars (but you have to do this with any option you choose).

Personally, I don't like Roush for a lot of things, but I do think they are serious when they say they've R&D'd their track oriented suspension. I would be very surprised if their coil over set up was inferior to their Stage 3 strut-based set up. So to me, that says you're unlikely to go "wrong" with their set up.

Now, cost is another factor. I think some folks were so quick to say jump on it, because you have to factor in all that the set up offers. Your springs are included, and you didn't factor this in to the strut option (assuming that saying you're unhappy with your current springs means you'll go to different ones with a new strut set up). So the real cost is more like:
- Koni Struts: $780
- Mounts: $300
- Springs (ex: Vogtland): $230
Total: 1,310

Compared to 15% off of $1,500, which comes to $1,275. For brute cost you're better off with the Roush set up, you get a bit more flexibility with ride height, an out of the box camber range up to 3 deg neg, and you're "safe" (in my estimation) with regard to quality. Warranty is as warranty does; I don't think I've ever called in a single warranty on anything I've ever broken; I've just called the seller and dealt with them as people. So you judge the value of that on your own.

FWIW, I have the strut set up outlined above and I track my car. It rocks, and I love it! I even got it from Sam, I love Sam, and I'll be getting more from him as the next season approaches. I have nothing against that option at all (aside from the fact that I could only get 2 deg neg camber w/o going to eccentric bolts), and I am happy with my 1" (fixed) drop. I just think you need to clarify the two options a bit.

HTH!

Best,
-j

 

[SD07GT]

go to ground-control-store.com !

dont be a cheap ass and spend the 1599.00 (hand down better than anything you can buy from Roush,frpp, saleen, eibach, steeda, vogtland, H@r !)

I thought coilovers were overated to until I tryed these !

 

[dkegel]

I do not like my current FRPP springs, I feel the car sits a tad too low and it is effecting the handling (lots of lean). Using FRPP struts/shocks is not helping either, IMHO.

Any thoughts and ideas are appreciated.

Just a quick comment on this... I would not necessarily blame your handling woes on the FRPP kit. Lowering your car using using pretty much any springs or coilover setup will cause you the same issues. Some decent sway bars (especially in the rear), X5 ball joints, a bump steer kit, and possibly rear LCA relocation brackets (to get those control arms parallel with the ground) will restrore your roll center and resolve the perceived body roll.

Dave Kegel

 

[DusterRT]

go to ground-control-store.com !

dont be a cheap ass and spend the 1599.00 (hand down better than anything you can buy from Roush,frpp, saleen, eibach, steeda, vogtland, H@r !)

I thought coilovers were overated to until I tryed these !

+1, good stuff if you can swing the extra few bills. Zero regrets with mine after 12,000 miles and a half dozen track days. Probably the best money I've spent on the car overall when all aspects are taken into consideration.

 

[Sam Strano]

Sam, what would you do with your stang if you had no limits? aside from a SLA front end..

I don't have an answer... And here's why: Depends on what I was trying to change.

Frankly, I don't think struts are all that problematic, I mean it's not like there are some pretty freaking fast strut cars (can you say BMW and Porsche 911?) on struts.

See, this is where my job sucks. Folks want "an answer" but answers depends on the data inputted....

 

[Sam Strano]

Anyone know what the actual components are?
Still waiting on the answer



I've considered the KONI route as well and would replace the strut mounts.
When are the sports going to be available again?? I hear supplies are low.
So with the Koni's and FRPP I should have a more "compliant" suspension.
Right not if just feels sketching, especially at speed, turning on anything with undulations.. 780.00 + 300 for mounts = 1030.00... hmmm
Worth considering.

Thanks for the input

That's a shock issue... Koni Sport rears are in stock, right now. Fronts hope to be build mid-Jan. (fingers crossed).

Here's the deal. Roush is a name you know. They are more than a little vague about what is in this kit (and it's unlikely they are going to tell you, they're Roush after all and that should be good enough). Maybe they will, and if they do, GREAT!.

I have an issue with coil-overs on the rear shocks. The entire load of the rear of the car is help up by the shock bushings? Not exactly precise....

Ground Control. I quit selling their stuff, but their coil-overs work. Trouble is they are a pain in the ass to deal with, and have some odd ideas (IMHO) on spring rates.

Given that I don't think that if you NEED coil-overs that's a bad route teamed with good shocks like Koni Sports, which I can supply.

As for those who switched to "coil-overs" it must be noted that when that happened the dampers also changed. And trust me, most of what you feel is damping and spring rate, nothing really to do with the fact they are threaded bodies.

 

[Sam Strano]

Just a quick comment on this... I would not necessarily blame your handling woes on the FRPP kit. Lowering your car using using pretty much any springs or coilover setup will cause you the same issues. Some decent sway bars (especially in the rear), X5 ball joints, a bump steer kit, and possibly rear LCA relocation brackets (to get those control arms parallel with the ground) will restrore your roll center and resolve the perceived body roll.

Dave Kegel

I have to respectfully disagree on a few points.

First, the FRPP dampers are not very good at all, and his complaint will certainliy be addressed by better damping.

The springs aren't the best, but workable. And having changed from FRPP to D-spec to Koni on the Shelby GT I autox--I know what the shocks are responsible for vs. the springs!

If he wants less roll, then he should investigate swaybars.

I don't feel that there is a pressing need for the X5's, the bumpsteer kit or the LCA brackets. In fact I do not have bumpsteer issues at all, and if you were to look at the tie-rods you'll see they are nice and level as are the control arms---unless you slam the car.

And as for LCA brackets..... I skip them too in most cases. Frankly the car is more stable if you don't run them because you get more roll understeer from the rear. And there are those that want to run the arms tail down (which is fine for drag racing), but that promotes roll oversteer which is the last thing you want.

 

[DusterRT]

Ground Control. I quit selling their stuff, but their coil-overs work. Trouble is they are a pain in the ass to deal with, and have some odd ideas (IMHO) on spring rates.

I hear that from time to time but would you care to elaborate a bit? I've had zero problems with my setup over the past year so I've never had to deal with them warranting stuff or anything, I just talked to one of their guys to note a few pretty minor installation issues I had.

I was going to go with a Koni-Vogtland-CC plates setup, but I wanted to be able to adjust my ride height as well..there are a lot of sharp breakover angles around here and I didn't want to be stuck with the ride height if it was too low..and GC seems to be the only setup where you can adjust up all the way to stock(ish?) height..everything else I'm aware of starts at a 1.5"+ drop.

 

[Sam Strano]

I hear that from time to time but would you care to elaborate a bit? I've had zero problems with my setup over the past year so I've never had to deal with them warranting stuff or anything, I just talked to one of their guys to note a few pretty minor installation issues I had.

I was going to go with a Koni-Vogtland-CC plates setup, but I wanted to be able to adjust my ride height as well..there are a lot of sharp breakover angles around here and I didn't want to be stuck with the ride height if it was too low..and GC seems to be the only setup where you can adjust up all the way to stock(ish?) height..everything else I'm aware of starts at a 1.5"+ drop.

Publicly, it is not my place to say anything beyond the fact I stopped carrying a working product because of issues with delivery and attitude. I could live with attitude if delivery wasn't an problem as often as it was. Sometimes it was fine.... Sometimes it was a nightmare, and you'll find that others have had similar issues.

I think it pissed them off I didn't use their standard rates, as I don't agree with what they tended to do. Maybe that pissed them off, maybe they just didn't care. I don't know. Regardless their kit works to convert Koni's to coil-over front and get weight jacker rears. I'd love to sell them again, but frankly I don't need the heartache of ulcers.

There are lowering springs as little as 3/4" drop from stock, there are 1" front springs, there are 1-1/4" rears. There are options to pick from. My Mustang is lowered 1.5 right now and dragging is never an issue where my Camaro can scrape the y-pipe and nose (much longer nose, shorter wheelbase) @ a drop that is just over 1".

 

[DusterRT]

I see..so as far as their spring rates, they supposedly use their own valving in the Konis for their full coilover kits they sell; given that do you think their rate choices are more appropriate? The rates in my "Street" kit are 340/175 F/R. I was surprised to see that high of a front rate, but they seem to work well and the ride is very good (better than I was expecting, probably more of a testiment for the Konis than anything)..but I have nothing to compare it to other than when the car was bone stock.

 

[Rodeoflyer]

That Roush stuff is made by KW. Roush provided KW with a bone stock S197 to use for development on their shaker rig. I know this because I was given a kit by KW, and one of their shock engineers did the setup on my car. My set was a side project during that time, using some of that data.

I don't know what the spring rates are in that kit - not that I think it matters. Most people will try various rates, and springs are cheap. I would ASSume that they are on the soft side, since Roush sells swaybars as well.

As far as the coilovers vs. conventional spring debate, my car lost 27lbs switching to the KW's. The ride height adjustment wasn't so much an issue as being able to get springs in various rates on the cheap. They take up less space in the garage than conventionals, and are cheaper on shipping. For the daily driver guy I agree they are more bling than anything. For those that auto-x or road race often I think they are worth it.

As far as the struts vs. SLA debate, for me the primary reasons were cost and driveability. With my Agent 47 kit I don't have to run ridiculous camber and toe settings. It gives me a better contact patch for braking. My front tires last longer. In the long run, I will save a lot of money on front tires and brake pads. Is a strut car just as fast? Just about, but I spend less time dicking around with the car now before and after an event. The car is easier for me to drive at the limit. YMMV

 

[Bizzyb0nes]

I can vouch for the relocation brackets making the car push in a handling situation...I noticed that problem with mine and got rid of them...and they were level...the car does in fact fill a bit more stable in the standard location. It also caused noise/clearance issues with my adj rear sway bar. The difference just bilsteins made on my vehicle with lowering springs was amazing...my friend has the eibach/frpp kit...and I truly believe the handling blah-ness is the shocks/struts...plenty of people run those eibach springs successfully. Koni Adj, Adj sway bars and I think it will completely change your ride. Im not an expert by any means...but i've been where your at...just speaking from my experience

 

[krispyrob]

Details on Roush Trak Pak

I've done a bit of research, and here is what I've found out about the components of the trak pak suspension kit.

First off, KW works with Roush on ALL of Roush's suspension kits (spring, dampers, etc.) I talked to a rep at KW and he confirmed that they do in fact manufacture parts for Roush, and if you look at the design of the trak pak compared to KW varient 1 and 3s available (notice the peculiar lack of varient 2s for our cars), you will notice they are extremely similar.

Further, KW doesn't make their own dampers from what I've been able to find, they are manufactured by Koni specifically for KW, with KW valving and tuning. Now, the warranty is issued and honored only by Roush, and they only offer a 90 day warranty against manufacture defects (If you buy with an American Express card, you can double this time.)

So, by buying the Roush Trak Pak suspension, I think it's safe to say you are getting Koni adjustable shocks (similar to Koni Yellows), KW springs developed with Roush (They are linear springs, compared to the progressive springs that come with KW Varient 1 and 3 kits, Roush doesn't release specs like spring rates, which is unfortunate), and probably Roush manufactured or specified camper plates. I've read nothing but good reviews about the kit, I've talked to a few people who have driven them and say it is just slightly stiffer than the Roush Stage 3 suspension, and handles a lot better (The tech I talked to at Roush has them installed on his mustang).

I sure hope this helps, I've done a lot of calling around and talking to the different companies to find out this information. If someone knows for sure that something I've said here is wrong, please let me know, as I'm about to order these for myself (probably in the next week).

 

[Rodeoflyer]

Those camber plates look identical to KW's. KW also paints thier springs and tenders yellow.

I don't know about the Koni connection, but that's easy enough to find out.