S550 Mustang Suspension and Powertrain Discussion

[dontlifttoshift]

For those that have driven both, is this car a bazillion times better than an s197? Stock base GT, PP 2015 car better than coilover/spring/sway bars S197? Autocross, track day, daily driver duty. Serious question.

 

[SlowJim]

I don't think many people have done suspension mods outside of springs and bars on them yet

 

[NDSP]

For those that have driven both, is this car a bazillion times better than an s197? Stock base GT, PP 2015 car better than coilover/spring/sway bars S197? Autocross, track day, daily driver duty. Serious question.

Hard to tell on a test drive from the dealership. I test drove a GTPP, my daily is a full suspension 2012 Brembo car. And i just could't tell from a simple test drive. So I didn't get it. Then Terry went 7 seconds faster than my best with a bone stock 2015 GTPP, Sure driver played a role, but cmash has a better setup car than I do and the stock 2015 GTPP ran times close to equal with his. So yes. It is ALLOT better than a S197.

 

[csamsh]

For those that have driven both, is this car a bazillion times better than an s197? Stock base GT, PP 2015 car better than coilover/spring/sway bars S197? Autocross, track day, daily driver duty. Serious question.

I'm going to say yes. How do I judge this? In a BONE stock, down to the brake fluid stock, I rode along for a few laps with Terry at Eagle's Canyon in Texas. He came within a second of my best time on 295 Rivals, with AST's, and good brakes, and control arms, seats, Torsen, yada yada yada. We S197 people, are, what's the phrase....royally fucked I'm afraid.

 

[Whiskey11]

I'm going to say yes. How do I judge this? In a BONE stock, down to the brake fluid stock, I rode along for a few laps with Terry at Eagle's Canyon in Texas. He came within a second of my best time on 295 Rivals, with AST's, and good brakes, and control arms, seats, Torsen, yada yada yada. We S197 people, are, what's the phrase....royally fucked I'm afraid.

What did Terry run in your car?

 

[csamsh]

What did Terry run in your car?

Hasn't driven it. Based on times people have done in cars similar to mine...there's not a ton left in it. maybe a second, maybe 2. But the fact that he was as close as he was, coupled with a couple autocross results we've been seeing pop up, is scary.

 

[Whiskey11]

Hasn't driven it. Based on times people have done in cars similar to mine...there's not a ton left in it. maybe a second, maybe 2. But the fact that he was as close as he was, coupled with a couple autocross results we've been seeing pop up, is scary.

It is ridiculously hard to compare times between drivers, especially on different days at different times. At best, it is a poor representation, at worst it doesn't represent anything. I suspect Terry has a lot more seat time in a multitude of cars in various motorsport disciplines than you have, is that a correct assessment?

Not that he'd ever do it, but I'm 99% sure Terry would probably be faster in my car after a few rounds than I would be just because he has a lot more seat time driving cars in anger than I do.

 

[white86hatch]

It is ridiculously hard to compare times between drivers, especially on different days at different times. At best, it is a poor representation, at worst it doesn't represent anything. I suspect Terry has a lot more seat time in a multitude of cars in various motorsport disciplines than you have, is that a correct assessment?

Not that he'd ever do it, but I'm 99% sure Terry would probably be faster in my car after a few rounds than I would be just because he has a lot more seat time driving cars in anger than I do.

You still can't deny that it's impressive. I watched our cam-c winner at the last event get beat by .2 raw time by a bone stock 2015 PP car in F street. Cam winning car has mcs coil-overs and 295 rivals all around. Granted it was trying to mist in our heat with cool temps and cloud cover and in the 4th heat when F street ran the sun had come out and warmed up substantially. I was impressed.

 

[Whiskey11]

You still can't deny that it's impressive. I watched our cam-c winner at the last event get beat by .2 raw time by a bone stock 2015 PP car in F street. Cam winning car has mcs coil-overs and 295 rivals all around. Granted it was trying to mist in our heat with cool temps and cloud cover and in the 4th heat when F street ran the sun had come out and warmed up substantially. I was impressed.

Ehh... A well prepped car driven by a crappy driver isn't necessarily going to be as fast as a mediocre prepped car driven by a great driver.

 

[dontlifttoshift]

Boardkat, Fair, anything to add?

 

[csamsh]

Ehh... A well prepped car driven by a crappy driver isn't necessarily going to be as fast as a mediocre prepped car driven by a great driver.

CAM car had a good driver. We don't know the FS guy. I'm not sure why you're on a crusade against the s550 (been talking to kcbrown too much? I kid....) , but it is impressive, and fast, especially considering the lack of mods out for it yet. It will eventually eat the s197's lunch.

 

[boardkat]

Boardkat, Fair, anything to add?

let's just say i don't regret for one minute getting rear ended, having my S197 written off, and ending up in an S550

after a lot of spirited driving and a few race weekends, i can now confidently say that there is nothing my S197 did better than my S550 currently does. my S197 in stock form needed a set of koni DA shocks with massive rebound up front, and half a year mastering the art of timely trail braking, before i felt satisfied that the car would rotate the way i wanted it - on smooth surfaces. every first run on a bumpy surface was a throwaway and exercise in memorization, so that i could recall where the bumps in steady state were and use them to my advantage for desired rotation on subsequent runs. contrast this experience with my S550 - it rotates on demand (controllably, even), and has the necessary compliance to eat up the bumps in steady state - on *stock* shocks. and these things are worth nothing; patiently waiting for jason to sign off on the MCS/dusold setup so that mine can go into production - at which point i expect my handling to transcend to a completely different level.

fwiw, i've had both cars on lowering springs and sways, too - this was an offseason setup on my S197 (stock class and wheel gap FTL), but i also did a few locals on it - and i must admit, the car improved significantly, especially in tandem with the shocks and about -3 camber. but while i wait for my MCS/spring/plate setup, i've done the same thing to my S550 - and even though i'm still on stock pirellis - worth less than nothing (also waiting on a couple sets of 18x11 and 315 a7/rival s to be made), i was absolutely floored at how fast i could dive into a corner; front end sets and rear rotates beautifully.

i know the S550 comes with a relative weight penalty on the GT, but it's my understanding that the majority of it is due to the IRS, which is exactly where i'd want to add weight if given a choice. i thought it was going to make a difference, and i had myself convinced that i could still win in an S197 - but that was before my accident and driving an S550. i do still believe that in FS, the 3.73 gearing will help balance the inherent advantages somewhat; but for ESP/CAM, with equal levels of preparation, setup and driving abilities, i just don't see how the S197 can come out on top. i don't expect that to be me, there's just too much time, preparation and talent in the existing S197 ESP cars, but would not be surprised one bit to see somebody like jadrice rocket to the top immediately, and stay there.

 

[Whiskey11]

CAM car had a good driver. We don't know the FS guy. I'm not sure why you're on a crusade against the s550 (been talking to kcbrown too much? I kid....) , but it is impressive, and fast, especially considering the lack of mods out for it yet. It will eventually eat the s197's lunch.

I'm not on a crusade, I just don't think we should be making leaps to the extreme without actually getting a decent test result back. A bad driver in a prepped car getting beat by a good driver in an ok prepped car is not a good data set. Until we see exactly how much better these cars at varying prep levels by known good drivers, I just don't see the point of the mental exercise that's been presented.

 

[dontlifttoshift]

Boardkat, thanks.

I'm not leaping to any extreme, I am just looking to replace my '12 with a comparable car performance wise that doesn't _need_ mods to get where me where I already am. Going back to factory ride (wifes car) and a factory warranty (I like modifying, hate repairing) is important to me right now. I need at least one worry free car in the garage.

 

[csamsh]

I'm not on a crusade, I just don't think we should be making leaps to the extreme without actually getting a decent test result back. A bad driver in a prepped car getting beat by a good driver in an ok prepped car is not a good data set. Until we see exactly how much better these cars at varying prep levels by known good drivers, I just don't see the point of the mental exercise that's been presented.

All of the results I've presented are good drivers, with one possibly really good driver.

Here's another one....terry drove a stockish boss with 295's and a watt's on the same day as the s550 at ecr, and was slower in the boss than in the s550.

 

[JPC]

All of the results I've presented are good drivers, with one possibly really good driver.

Here's another one....terry drove a stockish boss with 295's and a watt's on the same day as the s550 at ecr, and was slower in the boss than in the s550.

VERY old 295s...
Now the Boss has NEW track tires