S550 Mustang Suspension and Powertrain Discussion

[DevGittinJr]

"How To Make Your Car Handle" by Fred Puhn is about the best introductory-level book as I've ever seen . . . if you can find it.


Norm

Awesome book. Pretty much the suspension cliff notes for those of us who don't think like engineers.

 

[NDSP]

I'm sure many of you already know that today Ford announced the GT350R at the Detroit Auto Show. It's a bad MF'er, though I can't say I love the wing. The really interesting part for me is on fords facebook page, it stated that the GT350R is 130 lbs lighter that the GT350 and 500 lbs lighter that the GT, which in turn means the GT350 is 370 lbs lighter than the GT. Nice. Anyone for a 3200 lb Mustang.

In other news the Ford GT was announced, ecoboost 3.5 V6 with 600+ Hp. I think it is beautiful, though some seem to disagree. Raptor also gets the eco 3.5 but not the 600+.

 

[sheizasosay]

Can't wait to see some race teams running these in some high-profile races.

 

[SlowJim]

I'm sure many of you already know that today Ford announced the GT350R at the Detroit Auto Show. It's a bad MF'er, though I can't say I love the wing. The really interesting part for me is on fords facebook page, it stated that the GT350R is 130 lbs lighter that the GT350 and 500 lbs lighter that the GT, which in turn means the GT350 is 370 lbs lighter than the GT. Nice. Anyone for a 3200 lb Mustang.

In other news the Ford GT was announced, ecoboost 3.5 V6 with 600+ Hp. I think it is beautiful, though some seem to disagree. Raptor also gets the eco 3.5 but not the 600+.

Where are you getting this?

C&D puts the GT at 3810lb
GT350 estimated 3800 (nothing official yet from ford)

That would make the GT350R 3670... AKA 70 pounds heavier than my 2011 GT, despite all the aluminum and carbon fiber.

 

[NDSP]

Where are you getting this?

C&D puts the GT at 3810lb
GT350 estimated 3800 (nothing official yet from ford)

That would make the GT350R 3670... AKA 70 pounds heavier than my 2011 GT, despite all the aluminum and carbon fiber.

C&D knows dick all, they weighed the car with a trunk full of camera equipment. Soooo, yeah. 3700 ish for the GT from several different sources including ford.

I didn't mine the info, I was relaying what was posted on mustang6g. The claim was the info came from Ford's own facebook page here https://www.facebook.com/FordRacingSchool

 

[csamsh]

 

[claudermilk]

I'm sure many of you already know that today Ford announced the GT350R at the Detroit Auto Show. It's a bad MF'er, though I can't say I love the wing. The really interesting part for me is on fords facebook page, it stated that the GT350R is 130 lbs lighter that the GT350 and 500 lbs lighter that the GT, which in turn means the GT350 is 370 lbs lighter than the GT. Nice. Anyone for a 3200 lb Mustang.

In other news the Ford GT was announced, ecoboost 3.5 V6 with 600+ Hp. I think it is beautiful, though some seem to disagree. Raptor also gets the eco 3.5 but not the 600+.

I haven't read anything about the weight of the GT350, but did see the 130 pound loss mentioned for the R. Sweet. Even assuming the GT350 is about the same weight as the car Vorshlag weighed, that puts it at about 3588. Which puts it about 200-300 pounds lighter than the Z/28. Nice.

I agree, the new GT is sex. I also would give up body parts (but not arms) for one. I think Ford just shocked a bunch of people in Detroit, Maranello, Modena, even Woking. I certainly wasn't expecting something as extreme as what they did.

Another shocker that Ford threw was the wheels on the GT350R. First carbon fiber on this kind of car. Yeah, some exotics already have them, but nothing like the volume even the GT350R is likely to have. Wow. They also look really good, IMHO. Zooming in on the photos it looks like 305 front and 325 rears on--from what the articles say--19x11 and 19x11.5 wheels. Finally some decent shoes.

Ford just said "Hey! Chevy! Ferrari!"

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

The yellow car we weighed (a couple posts up) was a Premium power seat PErformance Pack 6-spd with no fuel. This grey car above is a Base interior cloth car with Recaros and Performance Pack, plus a 1/4 tank of fuel (shown).

Know this: FORD IS NOTORIOUS FOR GIVING OUT BOGUS WEIGHT NUMBERS. The New aluminum F-150 is supposed to be "700 pounds lighter" than the outgoing model. That is nonsense. GM does it also - they claimed that the the C7 Corvette was "100 pounds lighter" than the C6, when it fact it is 300 pounds heavier.

The GT350R has Carbon fiber wheels - which is one of the worst ideas floated in Detroit in years. This is just NOT the right material for wheels. Shelby tried to pull this off years ago with a Dodge Daytona - terrible results. We will definitely be offering proper aluminum, semi-forged wheel replacements for GT350R models soon. We've already put 18x11s on an S550 over the 15" brakes and they look GOOD!

 

[07TGGT]

The yellow car we weighed (a couple posts up) was a Premium power seat PErformance Pack 6-spd with no fuel. This grey car above is a Base interior cloth car with Recaros and Performance Pack, plus a 1/4 tank of fuel (shown).

Know this: FORD IS NOTORIOUS FOR GIVING OUT BOGUS WEIGHT NUMBERS. The New aluminum F-150 is supposed to be "700 pounds lighter" than the outgoing model. That is nonsense. GM does it also - they claimed that the the C7 Corvette was "100 pounds lighter" than the C6, when it fact it is 300 pounds heavier.

The GT350R has Carbon fiber wheels - which is one of the worst ideas floated in Detroit in years. This is just NOT the right material for wheels. Shelby tried to pull this off years ago with a Dodge Daytona - terrible results. We will definitely be offering proper aluminum, semi-forged wheel replacements for GT350R models soon. We've already put 18x11s on an S550 over the 15" brakes and they look GOOD!

Could you explain why carbon fiber is a bad choice of material for the wheels? Lack of strength or something?

 

[modernbeat]

Could you explain why carbon fiber is a bad choice of material for the wheels? Lack of strength or something?

No, strength can be fairly high. Lack of ability to sustain small amounts of damage without having a complete failure would be my main concern. Well, that and the fact that carbon wheels are banned in many race classes.

 

[csamsh]

^^^probably equal parts cost and safety

 

[Boaisy]

Smexy:

I didn't think they would be carbon fiber until I started reading some articles. Maybe some carbon fiber hybrid type wheel?

 

[Kobie]

Might these people be manufacturing these wheels? http://www.carbonrev.com/
They were talking about making wheels for an OEM (at about the 4 minute mark)in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWiTky3zZXQ

 

[Speed Junky]

Terry, do you have offsets established for 18x11 squared F14s? I see your website only lists the CF5s used on the Dusold car.

 

[csamsh]

F14's don't work in 18 with the 15" brakes- the barrel of the wheel is a different shape from the CF5.

 

[ArizonaGT]

Might these people be manufacturing these wheels? http://www.carbonrev.com/
They were talking about making wheels for an OEM (at about the 4 minute mark)in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWiTky3zZXQ

Yes.

 

[modernbeat]

Terry, do you have offsets established for 18x11 squared F14s? I see your website only lists the CF5s used on the Dusold car.

F14's don't work in 18 with the 15" brakes- the barrel of the wheel is a different shape from the CF5.

Like what Mark said, the F14 won't fit over the PP brakes in the 18" sizes. The only Forgestar that will fit over the calipers in an 18" size is the CF5.

Even in the 19" sizes, some of the styles won't fit. For the F14, this is due to the shape of the barrel. To make the F14 as light as it can be Forgestar uses a tapered barrel shape. This saves weight, but at the expense of radial caliper clearance. The CF5 have a straight barrel, and the well is moved toward the face a little in some sizes to give us more caliper clearance, but at the expense of using a little more material (weight).

Here's a pic of a black CF5 and a silver F14 on a display stand at our shop. You can see the different barrel profiles.

We've got offsets developed for the 18x11 front and rear. There are different offsets at each end, and it will require a camber plate to make them fit.

 

[BMR Tech]

Good info in here.

Those weights look right on par with the weights of our cars.

In regards to Ford's claims for the S550.

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/products/cars/mustang/2015-mustang.html

(Ford Claim) - Base GT Auto: 3729lbs.
(BMR Test Car) - Base GT Auto: 3704lbs.

(Ford Claim) - Base GT Manual: 3705lbs
(BMR Test Car) - Base GT Manual: 3696lbs
*Not owned by BMR

(Ford Claim) - Base GT Manual: 3705lbs
(BMR Test Car) - Base GT+PP Manual: 3736lbs

The PP parts outweigh the base parts, substantially.

So if anything, they got it "right" or even overshot the weights slightly, IMO.

We weigh our cars as Ford does when they get their weights, as they come delivered with a full tank of fuel. That is really the only way to determine whether or not the weights match the OEM claims.

On a different note, if anyone has any questions about the suspension or chassis on these cars, let me know. If I don't already know, I can/will find out.

 

[Dickr]

Base GT Weight with Performance Pack and Power Cloth Seats

Details: Ruby Red standard GT with performance package and reverse park assist. Standard cloth power seats. Full tank minus 0.7 miles and a lot of engine idle time. Tire inflation kit including the foam holder (5 lbs) was out of the car. Floor mats were in the car.

Total weight: 3752 lbs

NOTE: Car was level side to side and probably front to back so corner weights are accurate.

This compares to 3733 for an otherwise identical white car (in case the different paints actually weigh different) with Recaro seats. Also with full tank.

It appears the power seat weight penalty is about 10 lbs per seat.

Added picture with 169 lb driver:

Dick

 

[BMR Tech]

Unsprung weight!

143.9lbs per fender up front

132lbs per fender out back

So that's why they called it the S550....about 550lbs (552) of unsprung weight.

lol