Some 2013 auto testing tonight

[Grabber Blue 5.0]

Who is CasperGT? Is he a tuner/linked to Shaun at AED?

Not to stir the pot, just asking; since there seems to be a disagreement about what gears work the best on the A6 how does one find ground truth? There were people posting both for/against the 410's....same thing goes for the Boss IM, that seems to be another one of the arguments...

Larry (CasperGt) is not a tuner, just someone in this for the hobby like most of us. He uses Bama for his tunes. He is a firm believer in 4.10's but yet his best time is a 11.71. To me there is no disagreement, the fastest N/A autos are running 3.31's. The car in this thread that Kris is tuning for has gone faster than most already, on the stock 3.15's. The biggest problem with too much gearing in the autos are the shift into 4th before the stripe. That and getting the car to hook with too much gear since the 6R80 has a 4.17 for a first gear. The Boss IM will work but only with the correct supporting mods and the willingness to shift at 7600+ rpm.

 

[retfr8flyr]

I'm no expert on the new 5.0 automatics but with their gear ratios 6 speed automatic Gear ratios. First...4.17, Second...2.34, Third...1.52, Fourth...1.14, Fifth ...0.87. Sixth...0.69, the last thing you want to have the car do is shift into 5th. With the stump pulling first gear ratio of 4.17, I would think 3.31 would be about as high as you would want to go and the 3.15 stock gears would work fine.


Earl

 

[kdanner]

Not to stir the pot, just asking; since there seems to be a disagreement about what gears work the best on the A6 how does one find ground truth? There were people posting both for/against the 410's....same thing goes for the Boss IM, that seems to be another one of the arguments...

I look at it this way, the overall gear ratio is what is important. I even ran 4.30 gears for a long time and got into the 10s with them, but it was a total bitch to get the car hooked. Switched to 3.31 and lost nothing, but sure made the car easier to hook.

Consider these first gear ratios:

C4 - 2.46
4R70W - 2.84
6R80 - 4.17

Take the 4.17 and multiply it by the 3.31, you get 13.8 for an overall gear ratio in 1st. Now take that 13.8 and divide it by the first gear ratios of the other transmissions and this tells you what axle ratio would give you the equivalent with those transmissions:

C4 - 5.61
4R70W - 4.86

So, although 3.31 "sounds like" not much gear, you can see that in the end, it is quite a bit of gear with the 6R80.

We can do the same with the second gear ratios:

6R80 - 2.34
C4 - 1.46
4R70W - 1.55

That puts the 6R80/3.31 at 7.75, which is like a 4R70W with a 5.00 axle, or a C4 with a 5.31 axle.

And finally 3rd gear, where the 6R80 is 1.52*3.31=5.03, the others are 1 to 1, so 5.03 would be the equivalent axle there.


You'd all agree that an axle in the 5.00 range is a lot of gear, well, we're doing exactly the same thing with the 3.31/6R80, we just have 3 more gears to go after that.


Going the other way, a 4.10/6R80 in first gear is like having a C4 with a 6.95 gear, or a 4R70W with a 6.02 gear. You can see why hooking it is a problem.

 

[Greg Hazlett]

Great explanation, thanks!

Now..about the Boss IM.....hehehehehe.....I have one and plan on putting it on with the TT kit, hopefully I did not waste money on it.

 

[kdanner]

I think the manifold deal is simple too. It's all about RPM. Too many are unwilling to turn the RPM it requires. So a shift happens and it falls down to an RPM where the stock manifold is better, then the car is slower with the Boss intake.

 

[GeorgeInNePa]

I think the manifold deal is simple too. It's all about RPM. Too many are unwilling to turn the RPM it requires. So a shift happens and it falls down to an RPM where the stock manifold is better, then the car is slower with the Boss intake.

That's the thing that the Boss intake nay-sayers never take into account.

RPM after the shift.

Especially on these engines, they rev so fast at the upper end that they don't spend a lot of time from 7400-7600, but they spend quite a bit of time climbing out of the basement after the shift.

The higher the shift point, the higher the RPM after the shift, the less time spent at the bottom of the curve.

 

[firestang70]

I am switching back to the stock intake. My tuner won't tune for that high rpms it's shifting at 7300. Also tried for giggles 3.73s in the car. It picked up 0 improvement. I will swap back to stock 3.15s. With all that said what are stock intake and geared cars setting the shift on the 3-4. Looking for. 11.4x and 118 range. Am researching doing my own tuning so I don't have to wait for tune changes.

 

[GeorgeInNePa]

I am switching back to the stock intake. My tuner won't tune for that high rpms it's shifting at 7300. Also tried for giggles 3.73s in the car. It picked up 0 improvement. I will swap back to stock 3.15s. With all that said what are stock intake and geared cars setting the shift on the 3-4. Looking for. 11.4x and 118 range. Am researching doing my own tuning so I don't have to wait for tune changes.

I have a very simple solution for that. Want to hear it?

 

[04compgt]

I am switching back to the stock intake. My tuner won't tune for that high rpms it's shifting at 7300. Also tried for giggles 3.73s in the car. It picked up 0 improvement. I will swap back to stock 3.15s. With all that said what are stock intake and geared cars setting the shift on the 3-4. Looking for. 11.4x and 118 range. Am researching doing my own tuning so I don't have to wait for tune changes.

Switch tuners. You can gain a couple of tenths just by revving higher.

 

[mbreinin]

I am glad to see you are still obsessed with me, Kris. LOL.

I guess I will have to take my Coyote out again since it has not been out with the Boss intake, struts and driveshaft. I will "run my mouth" and predict I can go 11.50's with the new crap.

Mike

 

[kdanner]

I am glad to see you are still obsessed with me, Kris. LOL.

I guess I will have to take my Coyote out again since it has not been out with the Boss intake, struts and driveshaft. I will "run my mouth" and predict I can go 11.50's with the new crap.

Mike

I'd hope so, having things like skinnies, slicks, and suspension work. If it doesn't run quicker than a 50, it's pretty sad.

 

[mbreinin]

I'd hope so, having things like skinnies, slicks, and suspension work. If it doesn't run quicker than a 50, it's pretty sad.

Yeah, it has some real "suspension work." Shocks, struts and a cheap set of LCAs and brackets. LOL.

 

[kdanner]

Whatever Mike, that's a lot more than this car has. It's also more than wbt's car has, which is still on stock shocks/struts. Mine doesn't have struts on it either, yet.

 

[01bluesnake]

Just to toss this in here for reference, as i see a lot of guys debating the stock or Boss mani. This was a dyno day i had. Runs were same day so all the variables of weather, fuel, different dyno's get taken out. I didnt do any tuning for either in the cam adj. The Boss is definitely a beast past 6500RPM, but i had the car limited to 7300 so couldnt go farther. This was a comparison test between a ported stock mani, stock mani, and a boss. one graph shows down low loss, other shows high end gains. Same graphs, just selected different areas to highlight numbers. My car has been a best of 11.62@117 1500DA, 395whp and is a heavier premium GT to boot. It's a M6 with 3.31's. A lot comes down to driving with these cars.

Here is my graph how the car sits. Only change was GT500 mufflers for my 11.62 passes instead of stock mufflers for these runs which is worth roughly 4whp or so. 5th gear (1.1) was the 391whp run. 4th gear was the 396whp done for reference in whp change.

 

[psfracer]

^^^^ good, solid information there. I am surprised peak power and torque was less with the ported intake vs stock.

Looks like the Boss intake would do well if you spin it past 7500. When shifting at 7500, I wonder where the rpm would drop with the next gear? Looks like you would want to keep it above 6000.

 

[kdanner]

Looks like the Boss intake would do well if you spin it past 7500. When shifting at 7500, I wonder where the rpm would drop with the next gear? Looks like you would want to keep it above 6000.

I see a 2100 RPM drop after the 1-2 and the converter immediately locking.

 

[mbreinin]

Whatever Mike, that's a lot more than this car has. It's also more than wbt's car has, which is still on stock shocks/struts. Mine doesn't have struts on it either, yet.

Yeah, well, the shocks and struts aren't worth the money or time to be honest.

 

[Grabber Blue 5.0]

Yeah, well, the shocks and struts aren't worth the money or time to be honest.

Mike you have the Strange shocks/struts correct? You saw no improvement with these and are you lowered?

 

[mbreinin]

Mike you have the Strange shocks/struts correct? You saw no improvement with these and are you lowered?

I am stock ride height. I won't say I saw no improvement at all. I have not been back to the good track with all four to really test. I was able to cure most of my suspension bounce with the rears alone, but I am talking about going from a 1.67 to a 1.62 if I remember correctly. Maybe with all 4 I can get the car into the 1.5s, then I would consider them a worth while addition. I just have not had the car back out in a long time. It has been a wet and somewhat warm winter, and I have been playing with other cars instead of the daily driver.

Oh, yes...Strange one ways on all 4 corners.

Mike

 

[Sublime302]

First off, i have a completely stock auto 2013 5.0...

i am a complete noob to the new 5.0's. i have had mine since october, but done little research on how they work. i am trying to learn. i read this whole thread, but need to read it again.

Can anyone tell me specifically what is GOOD to do to them?

from what i read, if u understand correctly. keep stock gears, stock intake right?

I plan to do longtubes, offroad x, steeda cai, and a dynotune to start. i was planning on the boss intake and some gears, now after reading this thread i know to cross that off the list.

Sorry if these are stupid questions, but like i said, im trying to learn, and im a noob. I am used to my previous car which was a 2004, much different lol.

Thanks for the help and advice!