Streetability of big stalls

[Mishri]

if you are having traction issues go to a better track or get a better tire or do some suspension. the 2 people that are faster than you are running 4.56 and 4.88 gears. if you want to be the fastest you wont do it with 3.15s or 3.31s. especially if you are racing on the street.

 

[Riptide]

His car is into 4th at 99mph and 4th tops at 130. He's trapping about 112.

 

[2011/5.0]

I believe this post is about street-ability of big stall Slicks and 4.88 gears arent streetable most guys are building street /strip cars. Not drag only

 

[FIVE-OH]

Actually a 4.10 is the wrong gear unless you are running the stock intake manifold and a 28" tire.

The proper rear gear ratios break down like:

Stock intake manifold, 28" tire:
3.15 - cross at the top of third
4.10 - cross at the top of fourth

Boss or CJ intake, 28" tire:
3.31 - cross at the top of third
4.30 - cross at the top of fourth

The reason less gear is more for the auto is the 4.17 first gear. Do the math on what gear ratio is equivalent running a C4 vs. even a 3.15 gear with the 6R80. Depending on the planetary ratio it is in the 5.xx range.

So couple the truck like first gear in the 6R80 with a 4.10 or 4.30 and now you are going to start having traction issues and have less consistency especially on a marginal prep. Add that extra shift going down track and it becomes another negative for more gear.

I have seen it first hand, less is more.

Well said, too bad some are going to be too thick headed to believe less is more. The 6R80 can't be compared to other autos for the most part...

 

[Riptide]

That list is only a year old dude. That's not that long ago. You have no proof any of those people have since switched to taller gears. I'm open to seeing it.

But at this point perhaps a PM might be better. This will be my last post in the thread since we're heading OT.

 

[SSPSTANGBANGER]

My car has 3.31's and a 4c converter on a cobra jet intake setup and it violently knocks the tires off it on the street(I drive on 275/60/15 drag radials)
At track it trapped over 121mph on a unfinished tune that had major issues.
3.31 is like having a 4.56 on a 4r70w it's a lot of gear




Sent from my iPhone 5S

 

[Mishri]

3.31s is like 4.56s so my 4.10s is like 7.98323kl34

seriously though, it's not a problem.

 

[wbt]

if you are having traction issues go to a better track or get a better tire or do some suspension. the 2 people that are faster than you are running 4.56 and 4.88 gears. if you want to be the fastest you wont do it with 3.15s or 3.31s. especially if you are racing on the street.

Are you referring to race cars with non 6R80 transmissions?

If so then you have missed the point of this discussion.....

If not please explain yourself with the appropriate data (timeslips, video).

If you click the link in my signature you will see traction on a moderately prep'd track isn't an issue for me.

 

[JEWC_Motorsports]

Just get a 5c and 3:31 gears. Throw on a 28" bias ply slick and tell me how it goes.

 

[Five Oh Brian]

Do you have crappy DA where you live? I would expect at least high 11's with those mods. What exhaust set up you have?

100% factory stock exhaust, suspension, engine, airbox, etc., and no weight reduction. I run the heavy factory 19" wheels up front and 17" drag radials (28" tall), so my car is 3700 lbs (about 3880 lbs with me in it).

DA for our local tracks are typically sea level to several hundred feet above sea level, so our DA is pretty good. The culprit is likely the crappy Bama Tune ("free for life" and you get what you pay for!).

On a side note, my 5.0L is the usually the quickest N/A 5.0L at our local tracks, with most running mid 12's to mid 13's, so my 12.0's are pretty good relative to other modded 5.0's I encounter.

 

[Five Oh Brian]

From the "official 1/4 mile ET ranking, 4V all motor", here are all nine (9) naturally aspirated 5.0's with 6R80's....

# 1 = 3.31 gears, 10.875 @ 125.87 mph, wbt.
# 2 = 4.10 gears, 10.926 @ 122.29 mph, rick@livernois.
# 3 = 3.73 gears, 11.608 @ 119.54 mph, 2005mach1.
# 4 = 4.10 gears, 11.719 @ 119.28 mph, caspergt.
# 5 = 3.15 gears, 11.880 @ 118.11 mph, georgeinnepa.
# 6 = 3.15 gears, 12.438 @ 112.24 mph, deepimpactpony.
# 7 = 3.15 gears, 12.488 @ 113.92 mph, smitty.
# 8 = 3.15 gears, 12.758 @ 111.30 mph, dr wu.
# 9 = 3.31 gears, 12.864 @ 110.83 mph, baldmenace.

If the list were updated to include my '14 GT 6R80, I'd be #6 with my 12.03 @ 113.13 mph and my 3.15 gears.

I'm really curious how much wbt's car weighs and how much power it's putting down. It's not trapping 125 mph due to the 3.31 gears. The other 3 cars in the top 4 are either 3.73 or 4.10 gears, while every other car down the list has 3.15 or 3.31 gears. That tells me that more gear actually works with the 6R80's in a naturally aspirated 5.0L.

Thank you for helping me decide that 4.10's should be in my car! I will be installing them very soon! I'll be sure to post up time slips to show if they helped or not.

 

[wbt]

From the "official 1/4 mile ET ranking, 4V all motor", here are all nine (9) naturally aspirated 5.0's with 6R80's....

# 1 = 3.31 gears, 10.875 @ 125.87 mph, wbt.
# 2 = 4.10 gears, 10.926 @ 122.29 mph, rick@livernois.
# 3 = 3.73 gears, 11.608 @ 119.54 mph, 2005mach1.
# 4 = 4.10 gears, 11.719 @ 119.28 mph, caspergt.
# 5 = 3.15 gears, 11.880 @ 118.11 mph, georgeinnepa.
# 6 = 3.15 gears, 12.438 @ 112.24 mph, deepimpactpony.
# 7 = 3.15 gears, 12.488 @ 113.92 mph, smitty.
# 8 = 3.15 gears, 12.758 @ 111.30 mph, dr wu.
# 9 = 3.31 gears, 12.864 @ 110.83 mph, baldmenace.

If the list were updated to include my '14 GT 6R80, I'd be #6 with my 12.03 @ 113.13 mph and my 3.15 gears.

I'm really curious how much wbt's car weighs and how much power it's putting down. It's not trapping 125 mph due to the 3.31 gears. The other 3 cars in the top 4 are either 3.73 or 4.10 gears, while every other car down the list has 3.15 or 3.31 gears. That tells me that more gear actually works with the 6R80's in a naturally aspirated 5.0L.

Thank you for helping me decide that 4.10's should be in my car! I will be installing them very soon! I'll be sure to post up time slips to show if they helped or not.

My race weight is 3,400 lbs. My time on that list isn't up2date either. Here is a more recent list: http://www.modularfords.com/threads/185818-Bolt-on-2011-2013-Mustang-GT-5-0-Drag-Racing-ET-List

2 of the 10 second A6 cars there are running a 3.31.

My car has never been on a dyno. It has a full exhaust, Boss intake, Airaid CAI, tune and runs on e85. Street legal and NHRA legal down to 10.00. It still has A/C, power windows, power locks, stereo and all speakers, etc... It is not some gutted race car.

Plenty on this board have seen it in person at the track. It is as advertised.

Your problem is in your tune...get a real tuner to tune your car.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.

 

[kdanner]

if you are having traction issues go to a better track or get a better tire or do some suspension. the 2 people that are faster than you are running 4.56 and 4.88 gears. if you want to be the fastest you wont do it with 3.15s or 3.31s. especially if you are racing on the street.

3.31 gear here with 30" tires. See sig, and that was a 1.48 60'. It was out of gear and shifting to 4th right after crossing. If it was any faster I'd have put a 3.15 back in. I used to run 4.30s, guess which one works better? Shifting to 2nd before 60' just doesn't cut it, but if you want to learn that the hard way, go ahead. I already did.

Then there's those TX mile results. No other NA 5.0 has come close to 180, they haven't even been in the 170s. I needed a 3.15 there to prevent the 170+ mph upshift, which really kills you there, and it would have been even faster. In fact the only 2 5.0 cars to ever run faster there had a 3.6L KB or twin turbos. The next fastest ones were a TVS and a 2.3L Whipple, both manual cars, both 3.08 geared, both running a best of 180 just like my NA car and I kill them both by several MPH to the half mile. So you can probably guess my opinion about your statement regarding how well the 3.31 gear works on the street. Any kind of "roll race" is going to align with what we see at the mile. Oh the 4.30 "felt" faster, but it damn sure wasn't.

I like real, quantifiable numbers, not something subjective. Here' the pbox numbers from the mile. Keep in mind this is an unprepared runway, it's not like a dragstrip, there is no traction compound, there is no tire allowed like a slick or drag radials. I run the Pirelli P zeros there, roll out easy, go WOT when I see 30mph, and it is calibrated so it will not downshift to 1st gear when I do it, which would blow the tires off. That's an 8.42 60-130, tell me again that 3.31 won't work on the street.

 

[2011/5.0]

Wow i would be # 4 on that list. Thats outdated as hell.

 

[firestang70]

11.60@116 here my best with 3.31 gears. Oh I tried 3.73 gears I run 3.31 now. Stock manifold, 4c, 1 piece DS, 3850 with me in it.

 

[FIVE-OH]

100% factory stock exhaust, suspension, engine, airbox, etc., and no weight reduction. I run the heavy factory 19" wheels up front and 17" drag radials (28" tall), so my car is 3700 lbs (about 3880 lbs with me in it).

DA for our local tracks are typically sea level to several hundred feet above sea level, so our DA is pretty good. The culprit is likely the crappy Bama Tune ("free for life" and you get what you pay for!).

On a side note, my 5.0L is the usually the quickest N/A 5.0L at our local tracks, with most running mid 12's to mid 13's, so my 12.0's are pretty good relative to other modded 5.0's I encounter.

After hearing you have a Bama tune, I agree that is your issue. Get a Mike Rousch tune on that thing. He knows these autos very well...

 

[FIVE-OH]

From the "official 1/4 mile ET ranking, 4V all motor", here are all nine (9) naturally aspirated 5.0's with 6R80's....

# 1 = 3.31 gears, 10.875 @ 125.87 mph, wbt.
# 2 = 4.10 gears, 10.926 @ 122.29 mph, rick@livernois.
# 3 = 3.73 gears, 11.608 @ 119.54 mph, 2005mach1.
# 4 = 4.10 gears, 11.719 @ 119.28 mph, caspergt.
# 5 = 3.15 gears, 11.880 @ 118.11 mph, georgeinnepa.
# 6 = 3.15 gears, 12.438 @ 112.24 mph, deepimpactpony.
# 7 = 3.15 gears, 12.488 @ 113.92 mph, smitty.
# 8 = 3.15 gears, 12.758 @ 111.30 mph, dr wu.
# 9 = 3.31 gears, 12.864 @ 110.83 mph, baldmenace.

If the list were updated to include my '14 GT 6R80, I'd be #6 with my 12.03 @ 113.13 mph and my 3.15 gears.

I'm really curious how much wbt's car weighs and how much power it's putting down. It's not trapping 125 mph due to the 3.31 gears. The other 3 cars in the top 4 are either 3.73 or 4.10 gears, while every other car down the list has 3.15 or 3.31 gears. That tells me that more gear actually works with the 6R80's in a naturally aspirated 5.0L.

Thank you for helping me decide that 4.10's should be in my car! I will be installing them very soon! I'll be sure to post up time slips to show if they helped or not.

As mentioned before in this thread, that list is old and not updated. Most likely now your car wouldn't make the list at all...unless you are in the 11's or they expand it. But I would NOT do 4:10's unless you wanna go slower LOL.

 

[FIVE-OH]

3.31 gear here with 30" tires. See sig, and that was a 1.48 60'. It was out of gear and shifting to 4th right after crossing. If it was any faster I'd have put a 3.15 back in. I used to run 4.30s, guess which one works better? Shifting to 2nd before 60' just doesn't cut it, but if you want to learn that the hard way, go ahead. I already did.

Then there's those TX mile results. No other NA 5.0 has come close to 180, they haven't even been in the 170s. I needed a 3.15 there to prevent the 170+ mph upshift, which really kills you there, and it would have been even faster. In fact the only 2 5.0 cars to ever run faster there had a 3.6L KB or twin turbos. The next fastest ones were a TVS and a 2.3L Whipple, both manual cars, both 3.08 geared, both running a best of 180 just like my NA car and I kill them both by several MPH to the half mile. So you can probably guess my opinion about your statement regarding how well the 3.31 gear works on the street. Any kind of "roll race" is going to align with what we see at the mile. Oh the 4.30 "felt" faster, but it damn sure wasn't.

I like real, quantifiable numbers, not something subjective. Here' the pbox numbers from the mile. Keep in mind this is an unprepared runway, it's not like a dragstrip, there is no traction compound, there is no tire allowed like a slick or drag radials. I run the Pirelli P zeros there, roll out easy, go WOT when I see 30mph, and it is calibrated so it will not downshift to 1st gear when I do it, which would blow the tires off. That's an 8.42 60-130, tell me again that 3.31 won't work on the street.

Great write up.

 

[SSPSTANGBANGER]

From the "official 1/4 mile ET ranking, 4V all motor", here are all nine (9) naturally aspirated 5.0's with 6R80's....

# 1 = 3.31 gears, 10.875 @ 125.87 mph, wbt.
# 2 = 4.10 gears, 10.926 @ 122.29 mph, rick@livernois

If the list were updated to include my '14 GT 6R80, I'd be #6 with my 12.03 @ 113.13 mph and my 3.15 gears.

I'm really curious how much wbt's car weighs and how much power it's putting down. It's not trapping 125 mph due to the 3.31 gears. The other 3 cars in the top 4 are either 3.73 or 4.10 gears, while every other car down the list has 3.15 or 3.31 gears. That tells me that more gear actually works with the 6R80's in a naturally aspirated 5.0L.

Thank you for helping me decide that 4.10's should be in my car! I will be installing them very soon! I'll be sure to post up time slips to show if they helped or not.

My car mph more than all but these 2 listed and I was banging the rev limiter before shifts(in drive) and was stumbling off idle
My car is a premium 2014 A6 with full interior etc too
11.91@121mph in 90% humidity and 124deg intake temps
With my new CAI and tune revision it should be very close to high 10's @ 124+mph now
3.31 gears too


Sent from my iPhone 5S

 

[Grabber Blue 5.0]

From the "official 1/4 mile ET ranking, 4V all motor", here are all nine (9) naturally aspirated 5.0's with 6R80's....

# 1 = 3.31 gears, 10.875 @ 125.87 mph, wbt.
# 2 = 4.10 gears, 10.926 @ 122.29 mph, rick@livernois.
# 3 = 3.73 gears, 11.608 @ 119.54 mph, 2005mach1.
# 4 = 4.10 gears, 11.719 @ 119.28 mph, caspergt.
# 5 = 3.15 gears, 11.880 @ 118.11 mph, georgeinnepa.
# 6 = 3.15 gears, 12.438 @ 112.24 mph, deepimpactpony.
# 7 = 3.15 gears, 12.488 @ 113.92 mph, smitty.
# 8 = 3.15 gears, 12.758 @ 111.30 mph, dr wu.
# 9 = 3.31 gears, 12.864 @ 110.83 mph, baldmenace.

If the list were updated to include my '14 GT 6R80, I'd be #6 with my 12.03 @ 113.13 mph and my 3.15 gears.

I'm really curious how much wbt's car weighs and how much power it's putting down. It's not trapping 125 mph due to the 3.31 gears. The other 3 cars in the top 4 are either 3.73 or 4.10 gears, while every other car down the list has 3.15 or 3.31 gears. That tells me that more gear actually works with the 6R80's in a naturally aspirated 5.0L.

Thank you for helping me decide that 4.10's should be in my car! I will be installing them very soon! I'll be sure to post up time slips to show if they helped or not.

As stated that list is very outdated. There are plenty of guys from SVT that would be on that list and all with either 3.15//3.31 gears. The ones that went with more gear realized it was too much and dropped back down and have gone quicker.