Switched from E85 to 91 for road trip

[tjm73]

How much of a hit does your mpg take running E85 over gas?

 

[JUSTA3V]

Mine went down around 20 percent I would say. But the pros out weight that con IMO

 

[Unreal]

Do you park your car in a heated garage? As for the e85 . Where I get mine it is testing at E95 right now so there is a difference.

I take it your vette is the car on E85?

And finally, is your vette red with Weld RTS rims?

Vette is flex fuel, so it is whatever I run. Not a heated garage. Right now sensor is reading ~70% from station on Pecos/Higley.

Silver with either forgestar f14s or weld RTS depending on the mood. Got both wheels. In fact right now it has weld fronts and forgestar rears.

Where are you getting e95? Would love to find that before 1/2 mile this weekend.

 

[JUSTA3V]

From that same Valero. Granted I haven't tested it in a couple weeks. I still have 2 jerry cans of the 95 if you want it for the 1/2 mile.

I have to fill up today so I will go test it a little latter

 

[Unreal]

I'll just go fill up later and see what is reads out as. Sensors are usually spot on.

 

[JUSTA3V]

I'm curious to see what your read versus me

The OP. Sorry for the ultimate hi-jack

 

[Unreal]

72%

 

[stkjock]

35* this morning, mine fired right up, prob in the 70-75% range in the tank

 

[JUSTA3V]

Which do you think is more accurate?

Taken today from pecos and higley



Taken from the same gas station over a month ago

 

[BruceH]

Mine went down around 20 percent I would say. But the pros out weight that con IMO

That's around what I've seen when running forced induction. About 18%. My current 12:1 NA setup was also around 18% with the FRPP intake manifold. Haven't checked it yet with the stock intake and cmcv.

I'd like to see someone check the difference when running a road course or driving like an idiot (wot) all the time. I'm thinking it would be closer to the same usage as gasoline when both are used with lots of wot.

 

[stkjock]

hard to say on the % pics, /\, as they both look overfilled some

 

[JUSTA3V]

everything was measured out perfect before I shook it up. I tested both twice. I would like to know which way is more accurate. My way or the GM computer. Its quite a difference from his to mine.

 

[stkjock]

maybe it's the angle but the second pic certainly looks over filled

 

[WJBertrand]

A tune change is all that's needed with a stock car. A stock 3v motor will pick up about 10/10 rwhp/tq. E85 really comes to life with more cylinder pressure either through higher compression or boost.

Keeping all things the same a 4.6 3v making around 500rhwp will gain 35rwhp just on the fuel change and changing only the stoich in the tune. More gains are possible with more spark advance and more boost. Boost can be added to the limits of the motor because E85 won't detonate. Spark can be added until it starts making less power for the same reason.

E85 or even E50 or E30 are game changers for internal combustion engines. Ethanol reduces the threshold for detonation and cools the combustion chamber. It can't really be compared to gasoline with gasoline metrics like btus.

The oil companies go to great lengths to demonize ethanol. You can find plenty of people on here who have had great success with it. In fact it is my belief that having 10% ethanol is part of the reason we can have stock motors with 12:1 compression that run on 87 octane. There are other factors but the cooling and anti detonation effects of ethanol are part of the equation imo.

I've seen a few oil company advertisement that are made to look like news stories. Their only purpose is to demonize ethanol. Why? Because only one oil company has invested in ethanol production, the rest of them see it as something that cuts into their profits. This is the same reason they fought to have MTBE used as an octane booster. They knew how dangerous it was but they ignored that and said they just couldn't put ethanol in their product (MTBE is made from refining byproducts that are hazardous).

Sorry for the soapbox, it wasn't directed at you. I come from a farming background in corn country and get somewhat excited when ethanol comes up because most of the info out there just isn't correct. Have a nice day.

Thanks for the information. Regarding MTBE, the dangers were overplayed. I work in the Medical field (medical devices) and we developed a pump to dissolve gall stones the are made primarily of cholesterol (unlike kidney stones which are mineralized). We used pure MTBE pumped directly into and sucked back out of the gall bladder to wash and remove the gall stones. The biggest patient concern was if too much MTBE spilled into the digestive tract it would have an anesthetizing effect on the patient so we had to control the volume carefully. MTBE is an ether, so has the same effect as ether-based anesthesia. We searched the literature and performed toxicity testing and that was the worst thing we could find.

With respect to fuel, I understand your point of view on EtOH and I also understand the political power of the EtOH lobby, not to mention the government subsidies.

 

[BruceH]

Thanks for the information. Regarding MTBE, the dangers were overplayed. I work in the Medical field (medical devices) and we developed a pump to dissolve gall stones the are made primarily of cholesterol (unlike kidney stones which are mineralized). We used pure MTBE pumped directly into and sucked back out of the gall bladder to wash and remove the gall stones. The biggest patient concern was if too much MTBE spilled into the digestive tract it would have an anesthetizing effect on the patient so we had to control the volume carefully. MTBE is an ether, so has the same effect as ether-based anesthesia. We searched the literature and performed toxicity testing and that was the worst thing we could find.

With respect to fuel, I understand your point of view on EtOH and I also understand the political power of the EtOH lobby, not to mention the government subsidies.

The government does subsidize the oil industry. Ethanol subsidies ended a few years ago. They were $.40 per gallon that a fuel retailer sold so they didn't really go to anyone who produced it, only to the petroleum retailers who blended and sold to their stations.

 

[WJBertrand]

The government does subsidize the oil industry. Ethanol subsidies ended a few years ago. They were $.40 per gallon that a fuel retailer sold so they didn't really go to anyone who produced it, only to the petroleum retailers who blended and sold to their stations.

Well, it looks like some subsidies were allowed to expire while others were left in place or replaced with new ones. So it doesn't seem fair to say ethanol fuel production is not still tax subsidized.

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/econo...15-budget-backs-costly-corn-ethanol-subsidies

http://www.taxpayer.net/library/art...or-corn-ethanol-and-other-corn-based-biofuels

Government subsidies should be used to get a new industry over the start up hump, but once that industry is self sustaining, the subsidy should be stopped. That includes oil companies in my opinion. If after some reasonable amount of time the new industry still can't self support, then as a taxpayer I have to conclude it's either a bad idea or will never be profitable. It's time to pull the plug.

 

[BruceH]

Well, it looks like some subsidies were allowed to expire while others were left in place or replaced with new ones. So it doesn't seem fair to say ethanol fuel production is not still tax subsidized.

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/econo...15-budget-backs-costly-corn-ethanol-subsidies

http://www.taxpayer.net/library/art...or-corn-ethanol-and-other-corn-based-biofuels

Government subsidies should be used to get a new industry over the start up hump, but once that industry is self sustaining, the subsidy should be stopped. That includes oil companies in my opinion. If after some reasonable amount of time the new industry still can't self support, then as a taxpayer I have to conclude it's either a bad idea or will never be profitable. It's time to pull the plug.

I'm not for subsidies at all. I'm all for ethanol as a fuel, it's fantastic. I would like to have more choice in obtaining it as a fuel but I understand why a petrofuel company wouldn't want to sell it, it cuts into their profits and they don't produce it. That's the same reason they didn't want to use oxygenated fuels unless they contained MTBE. Cut into their profit.

The one exception is Valero, they are the largest ethanol producer in the US.

I wonder how much federal money was used for the MTBE cleanup that was caused by big oil companies? I have read reports of over $20 billion total but who paid what wasn't real clear.

The links you provided point toward a farm bill that has tax breaks for blender pump installation, is that correct? Did the farm bill pass with all the provisions? It was dated 2015 and if it did pass then we should see some more blender pumps being installed.

I'd think the only way to get the "subsidy" would be to install a pump. If a big oil company installed the pump they would get the tax break so who is it helping at that point? Kind of like the .$40 a gallon from before. The only people who got the money were oil companies who blended ethanol in their fuel, it didn't go to ethanol producers or farmers.

Anyway, to get back on point I also notice a difference in power when going from pump gas to E85. I feel for you OP.

 

[Unreal]

From what I'm told the sensors are typically within 1-2%. Friends that measured it both ways are typically spot on. I may have a splash of normal gas in still so that could drop it 2-3% but right now sitting at 72-73%, and everyone else I know running e85 says all the stations here in the winter are ~70-75% then it goes back up to 82-84% during the summer.

 

[stkjock]

blends change depending on region and season.

http://www.bimmerboost.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=29553&d=1365787370

 

[JUSTA3V]

Cool