The Definitive "Hard To Shift" Thread

[MountainMichael]

Any input on WOT box used for WOT shifts?

Read the whole thread. Good info. I don't want the added NVH (vehicle harmonics; aka, vibes, noise) CHE warns about from the torque limiters - even their street version.

So... alternative mentioned: WOT box usage for WOT shifts:

Any feedback from users of WOT box? Does it really make WOT shifts "as easy as shifting trans with clutch in and engine off"? (a brag the manufacturer gives)

Does the WOT box set up for WOT shifts really reduce or "eliminate" (ahem..??) synchro wear and damage?

All of the above supposedly without brace and torque limiter??... reportedly due to powershift over revs being prevented by the WOT box when used in this manner...

If it's NOT hype, seems like a WOT box set up for WOT shifts could really help protect one of the 3650's weaknesses - synchros.


TIA

Mick

 

[MountainMichael]

Ok, post number 37 in this other thread suggests WOT "no lift shift" feature helps a lot:

http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34661&highlight=WOT+box+shifting&page=2

 

[Hvacmike]

Here is my take in this issue.

I have always had this problem on all mustangs I have owned. I have owned 7 mustangs total. I had a neon srt-4 I never missed 2nd or 3rd, and my miata the only time I miss a shift is if I am not driving the car.

For me it seems like a shift timing issue, it depends where the clutch engages and how much pedal travel the clutch has. I have found if I make the shift lever longer it improves my shifting. I have a tri-ax in my 08 gt. with it in the highest setting with the stock knob I can shift fine driving normal but can't shift very well trying to shift at high rpm's fast.

Here is what I tried. I made a bracket to raise the shift lever higher and on top of the base. Yes this looks kind of funny but it has improved my high rpm fast shifting 100%.

 

[MountainMichael]

WOT box no lift shift feature..

Just read the WOT box 20+ page thread. Some consolidated observations for this thread from the WOT box thread:

Looks like barring a shot syncro or other mechanical failure, the WOT box no lift shift feature may in fact help a LOT - without any other mechanical changes... and this is important to me because it appears that some of the mech upgrades for shift problems might detract from some important attributes for a daily driver.

Some describe the WOT "no lift shift" (NLS hereafter) feature as making the notchy 3650 trans act "buttery smooth on powershifts" ~ whereas before, wide open throttle power shifts were essentially impossible for some gears; especially on cars approaching or over 500 whp. Most users appear convinced the NLS is going to protect their 3650 trans from being so destruction prone.


Appears NLS backfires can be enormous for turbo cars causing a cannon or mortar like report. Appears the more "common" backfires for non-turbo cars, while possibly not as titanic, can still be enough to blow up chambered or stock mufflers. Backfires may be an irritant to some people like me. Probably some other variables involved in the volume and frequency of the backfires as well.

Jury is out on risks to cat convertors. Or kittie kats in general due to occasional flames shooting out the back!

My take based only on reading: I'm thinking the 2-step and rev limiter features of the WOT box are probably most of the risk to cat convertors. NLS feature alone seems to me like it would load a lot less unburned fuel onto the catalysts than the (starting line) 2 step or rev limiter - depending on the driver and BAC , of course.

I'm switching to straight thru mufflers right now (as soon as the paint dries!) but keeping stock cats on my whippled stang. So I may try this using ONLY the NLS feature for now... and will report back if I do.

Would still like to hear from anyone who had shifting problems and then went to WOT box with "NLS" enabled... did it help or solve your problems?

Is nobody talking because this knocked off some serious E.T....?? ;-)

Thx,

Mick

 

[MountainMichael]

Contrary to input in the WOT box thread suggesting that aftermarket cats are less likely to melt down, 2 of my tuners think the stock Ford catalysts are far more durable than most aftermarket cats. Both agreed metallic cats might be best if I decided I had to take the stock cats off.

I'm in a non tested area of my state, but heard a horror story from a guy about fines imposed on him for removing cats - in this same non tested area. The story goes: While data logging at WFO and high speed, he reportedly got a whopper of a ticket - the car was impounded - promptly followed by being busted for everything they could find that was out of compliance on the car. The real bell ringer fines were for removing the OEM catalysts. I'm guessing he probably got mouthy with the cop or maybe had liquor on his breath or did something to PO the officer?? Though he didn't seem like that type... ya' never know when hearing a story after the fact.

I don't know about any the above, so no opinion here. For now, I'm staying with the stock cats. Relevance to this thread (??): Trying to decide if keeping the cats really means NLS isn't safe for my stang or not..

k, back to topic..

Big shifting improvement from NLS without various mechanical changes or not?

 

[JanShelbyGT500]

Since this is the definitive thread I'll relate my experiences. This might help someone fixing their car.

With the stock clutch the car shifted fine not great. I changed the fluid to Amsoil and it improved. I then SCd which required my changing the clutch as the stock one wouldn't hold the power of the new setup. I changed to a Spec 2+ seemed fine at first but slowly the clutch wouldn't release all the way dragging and making shifts more and more difficult. I bled the system with a vacuum bleeder and that didn't help. I removed the transmission and shimmed the clutch slave cylinder 1/8 of an inch. That cured the problem shifts great. Conclusion is that the diaphragm plate on the Spec clutch lost some shape over the first few drives. It wasn't properly cold set. What this means if I am correct is the fingers bent slightly after install not allowing the clutch to fully release given the limit of the throw on the slave cylinder. By adding a shim the slave cylinder throw was made longer and allows the Spec clutch to fully release. If the fingers continue to move than the clutch is garbage. If like a spring they are now at what is called their cold set point they will be fine for at least the life of the plate.

How is the spec holding out after you shim down the slave? Has the clutch continue to deform? I have the same clutch and same issues. I am thinking of getting a mcleod rst and get this shifting problems solved. Put the che brace on, and still have the same issues. Hence i believe it must be the spec clutch

 

[908ssp]

It continues to work just fine.

 

[phorty]

The shifting improved quite a bit after the MGW was installed, but I still have some issues. When the trans in in gear, any gear, there is 1" of side to side play on the shift lever. It still causes me to have problems getting the trans into gear, especially with higher RPM shifting. I noticed the side to side play in the shift linkage at the front of the shifter arm where it attaches to the part that goes inside the transmission. Today, I attempted to add some washers in there to get rid of the side to side play, but the side to side play still there. It seems that the bushing and parts inside the connection are worn. Does anyone make an aftermarket piece to replace the bushing and O rings in between the shifter arm and the part that sticks out of the transmission? I saw that some people removed the white bushing in the linkage at that point, but I don't see how adding more play in the linkage will resolve the shifting issue.

I noticed this exact same issue in my 06 with an MGW. I even talked to George at MGW about it. Obviously it is the connection between the 2 OEM parts that have the slop and he said that it is normal for these cars. Mine seems to have gotten worse though. I even contemplated adding washers like you said because that seemed like it would help.

Other than the slop, I don't really have an issues shifting. It doesn't seem to negatively effect the actual shifting that I notice. Once the car is in gear, I don't normally move the shifter back and forth anyway. It sucks that it does it but doesn't seem to cause a problem at least.

 

[JanShelbyGT500]

Heres the update, i just finished installing a used RST twin disc clutch that i bought here in the forum. Clutch is silky smooth, much easier than my spec 3 and the gears are about 85% better. I can row 1 to 2 great but the 2-3 shift still feels a bit notchy. With the spec clutch, it even wouldn"t in at high rpms, now with the mcleod, it goes in but still feels like something, doesn't let it go in as it should. I also have a che brace on the car. I don't know what would be the next step. I don't know which shifter the car has, as i bought it as it is. Should a put a MGW shifter? Should i check the alignment on this shifter? Could it be the 3rd gear synchron?

 

[ZmanM3]

Did you replace the hydraulic clutch-release bearing?
http://www.musclemustangfastfords.c...hydraulic_clutch_release_install/viewall.html

 

[JanShelbyGT500]

I imagine you are talking about the slave cylinder and throw out bearing? Yes. I think is the shifter. I am thinking of getting an MGW that prevents 3rd gear lockout with a return spring.

 

[ZmanM3]

I am talking about the hydrolic through out barring.

 

[JanShelbyGT500]

No, i did not change the throw out bearing. Every time i think that the problem solved, still there is something else. I already put the che brace and a rst mcleod clutch with a new slave. The problem is 90% corrected, but i feel that still there is an issue. I am going to order this release bearing. Thanx for all the info. Hope this is the end of this. After this, i only have left to replace the shifter to a MGW and the poly engine mounts.

 

[908ssp]

If you changed the slave you changed the throw out bearing. They are one piece you can't change one without the other.

 

[JanShelbyGT500]

If you changed the slave you changed the throw out bearing. They are one piece you can't change one without the other.

Ok. So i did change the slave for an OEM slave. Should i just buy the ram throwout bearing since it is adjustable? What else is needed to installed this throwout bearing? Lines? Fittings? I am starting to get desperate with this issue

- Already put a Che brace on it
- Changed my Spec clutch for a RST twin disc Mcleod clutch with flywheel
- Changed my slave cylinder for a new OEM one.

I would said, that shifting has better in 80-85% , however 2nd to 3rd still grinds a bit. So what is next?
- RAM throwout bearing
- MGW Shifter
- Poly engine mounts

 

[908ssp]

In your case unfortunately I think you need to have your transmission freshened up. New syncro rings or bands. Putting an 1/8" spacer behind my slave was all I needed to clean up my shifts but with everything you have changed I think it might be too late for that. Plus pulling the transmission for the spacer is so much work you might as well have it looked into.

Just a little side note. The stroke range on the slave is much larger than the stroke of the master. What this means is that the master moves the slave about 3/4" but the available stroke range of the slave is like 2". When I installed my 6060 I used the stock slave it compressed the slave 3/8" more than the same slave with the 5sp transmission. It is working flawlessly with the pedal about mid way just where you want it. Adding an 1/8" shim will have no negative effects if the clutch is not sensitive to over travel. The pedal position will not change once you're in the range of getting a full stroke, pedal pressure will not change either as there is no leverage at work.

 

[JanShelbyGT500]

Hope you are wrong, but at this moment every thing is possible. I think if the syncros were bad, they have would have problems shifting at slow speeds, which i don't. It is just from 2nd to 3rd and just a bit of grinding. I think i will replace the shifter with the MGW. Hope this corrects, If not, we continue ruling out stuff

 

[jjleomustang]

Hope you are wrong, but at this moment every thing is possible. I think if the syncros were bad, they have would have problems shifting at slow speeds, which i don't. It is just from 2nd to 3rd and just a bit of grinding. I think i will replace the shifter with the MGW. Hope this corrects, If not, we continue ruling out stuff

It does sound like you may need a freshen-up on the trans but even if you go this route I would still change out the stock motor mounts with some poly to limit the movement of the engine.
The che brace with limiters helps this but I don't think it eliminates movement quite like the poly mounts do, the combo is what I am currently running.
Like 908 said you can shim the slave 1/8 with no ill effects, This is what I will try first.
What shifter are you currently running? I am swapping my Tri-Ax for the MGW but havent done it yet so i will report back when I do!​

 

[JanShelbyGT500]

I don't know, what shifter the car has. Bought it with that piece of crap already now. LOL. I am on the fence on changing to a mgw shifter, poly engine mounts, or ram release bearing.

 

[jjleomustang]

Well I'm not going to say that the poly mounts are going to fix the problem your experiencing but it shouldn't contribute either!
I would try to shim the slave before you buy the Ram! but thats my opinion.
It shouldn't be to hard to tell what shifter you have, You should be able to tell by pulling up the shift boot! If you can't tell snap a pic and post it with the boot pulled up and I'm sure someone will recognize it.