Tuning and Tracking

Budwise

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Do you guys usually get a tune on your car for road course events? I know power isnt all that important in road courses, but what's everyone experience? I'm contemplating getting an AED tune for my car later in the year but was just curious what other corner carvers have to day on the matter.
 

frank s

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Percentage power increase in these cars is less significant than throttle response improvements, which are essential.
 

Roadracer350

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Percentage power increase in these cars is less significant than throttle response improvements, which are essential.

+50 on this! Stock throttle response sucks. If I could go cable Insted of wire I would do it in a nanosecond! :beer:
 

csamsh

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I like the stock throttle response better than the "tunes" I used to run. My experience with non-custom tunes is an utter lack of linearity. Think y=ln(x). Great for AmericanMuscle.com blowhards to talk about how they spin all the way through second...but completely useless to anyone that might need part throttle.

If you do a tune, make sure to tell whoever it is that you want some linearity, not a burnout machine.
 

neema

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I like more sensitive throttle pedal, personally. It's good for throttle blipping during downshifting. Steve Espo uses an AED tune and uses his car extensively on tracks. Whoever your tuner is, make sure to have good dialogue with them about what you're doing to the car. 30 minutes at 10/10 on a road course is so much more than a run at the drag strip
 

c_reber

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I'm on the fence on getting a custom tune as well. I already have the "bama" tune in the SCT device, but honestly I didn't really notice a difference from stock. (engine is all stock, no mods). But a custom dyno tune is going to run about $400 bucks. Worth it for 5-10 more HP? Or would a tune help more with throttle response and power "under the curve"?
 

Sky Render

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I like the stock throttle response better than the "tunes" I used to run. My experience with non-custom tunes is an utter lack of linearity. Think y=ln(x). Great for AmericanMuscle.com blowhards to talk about how they spin all the way through second...but completely useless to anyone that might need part throttle.

If you do a tune, make sure to tell whoever it is that you want some linearity, not a burnout machine.

You're kidding, right? The stock throttle response waits for an electronic committee to decide to actually open the throttle plate. It is horrendous.

If you want response and linearity, use a Ford Racing tune. That's what I have, and it is so much better than stock that I wish I had put it on my car the second day I owned it.
 

Vorshlag-Fair

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This is something I have noted in my S197 build thread, but I will reiterate it here again. The worst things I've found when driving a 2011-14 GT with a "custom tune" is the horrible NON-linear throttle mapping tricks used to "make the car feel fast". The thing I've seen more times than not was when the throttle pedal was barely touched the throttle lade went 100%. We had a Steeda tune on an SCT tuner with a cold air at the very beginning, and it was ridiculous.

DSC_0631-S.jpg
DSC_0654-S.jpg


Sure, it might "feel" faster, but the throttle sensitivity goes out the window. Its not hard to use your foot more aggressively, but when a 1/4 throttle pedal travel equals 100% Wide Open, you lose a lot of throttle CONTROL, in my view. We had them go back to the stock throttle map, but they couldn't understand why. It was still jacked up.

DSC_2024-M.jpg


This was especially over-amplified when we were racing on a 265mm street compound tire with 430 whp in SCCA's STX class. We had 5 National level drivers attempt to drive the car at a test event one day. It was a 2nd gear typical autocross course and it was just wheel spin, spin, spin city. We finally broke down and had several drivers try this course again in 3rd gear instead of 2nd gear, and the car was 1 second quicker for everyone. All from the lack of throttle control with a "tuned throttle map" and the over-abundance of torque in 2nd gear. Once the torque was chopped off, the car was drivable again.

We went to our tuner and asked him to make a more linear throttle map, and ended up making it where it wouldn't go WOT until 7000 rpm. So at low RPMs it would only open the throttle 50%, and ramped up to 100% open at higher RPMs (when torque dropped off). It was our own ghetto form of traction control, by FORCING the throttle to NOT open all the way so damned fast. For slow speed corners (1st and 2nd gear) it was faster this way. Because even the stock throttle map is too "FAST".

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With the power that even a mildly prepped Coyote 5.0 can make, and the skinny section width tires most people run, you want as MUCH throttle control as you can get.



Look at the in-car video above from 1:21 to 1:28, and again from 2:38 to 2:47 (same corner, next lap). That is a fairly slow, 3rd gear corner where I am DANCING on the throttle, counter steering constantly, hunting for rear grip. We have the throttle map slowed DOWN and more stock like than ever. Driving this set-up on street tires even much, much harder. Tip toe driving with more throttle, less, more more MORE, a little less.... then FULL throttle on corner exit, all while working the front wheels to keep it pointed in the right direction. That's using a 315mm Hoosier A6, on 12" wide rear wheels, with downforce plus good suspension, and only 420 whp. I couldn't do that with the ON/OFF throttle mapping we had from the Steeda mail order tune, not a chance.

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I'm just NOT a fan of the ON/OFF switch throttle maps most tuners throw at these cars. Don't get tricked with a "sped up throttle map". That is a gimmick that isn't "faster", just less driveable.

That's just my opinion and experiences, but it is based on 4 years of racing a Coyote in both low speed (autocross) and higher speed (road course) competition, with about 100 competition events in these 5.0 cars. I hate ramped up and "tuned" throttle maps! :tdown:
 
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SoundGuyDave

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If/when you (or anybody that tracks the car) gets a "custom tune," make sure you work with your tuner to not only dial in the throttle map (on mine, it was seven iterations of the map before I was happy), but also the dashpot values... This simulates the old-school engine braking that is experienced off-throttle, as opposed to the "new school" no-load coasting. It REALLY shines when you're doing throttle massaging mid-corner... Note: this is specific to the 4.6L, I don't know if it's the same way with the 5.0.
 

Mustang259

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thanks Vorshlag, learn something new everyday, my gig is corner carving and sounds like a tune will not be very helpful. you guys rock, have you sold the black gt yet?
 

DPE

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Okay, so there has to be a happy medium in here somewhere? I have not had my 14 on a track yet, but even with only 1200 miles on it I can tell the throttle just feels 'over-managed' for lack of a better term. Response is something less than immediate, and between shifts it hangs a bit as well. Additionally, the limiter seems to arrive almost before redline sometimes. All that said, it is linear and controllable at least.

I've never been too excited about tunes for the reasons described; I don't want to lose that nice, linear and 'long' pedal that allows for the small corrections you need on track. My 2010 with the Ford-optimized 4.6L tune from the factory actually felt pretty good to me. Room for improvement I'm sure, but it was good enough that I didn't feel the need for anything above and beyond. With the 5.0, it just feels like it needs something for drivability, but I don't care to give up linearity or smoothness in power application.

Render, it sounds like the FRPP tune is a good setup for what we all like to do? Does it raise or soften the rev limiter at all? Or is that adjustable with the Pro Cal? Any others get a good tune from one of the tuning companies with an SCT or the like that does the things we want without having to go through 7 iterations?

Not even sure why I'm in here as all my money should be going toward suspension, but with all this power I'd sure like it to be delivered a little more to my liking without cocking it up.
 

ArizonaGT

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Whoever your tuner is, make sure to have good dialogue with them about what you're doing to the car. 30 minutes at 10/10 on a road course is so much more than a run at the drag strip

x1000000000000000000000

I have an AED tune as well and one of my specific requirements was not to make ultimate HP but to survive a beating on the road course using 95 or 100 octane, for 60 mins at a time, in temps up to 105*. Longevity is key.
 

jmauld

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I like the stock throttle response better than the "tunes" I used to run. My experience with non-custom tunes is an utter lack of linearity. Think y=ln(x). Great for AmericanMuscle.com blowhards to talk about how they spin all the way through second...but completely useless to anyone that might need part throttle.

If you do a tune, make sure to tell whoever it is that you want some linearity, not a burnout machine.

I agree, most of the "throttle response" mods that are done, will you have you at 100% throttle about midway through the pedal travel. You don't want that.
 

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