Valve train noise (opinion on what it is)

rzaenglein

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Ok, a little bit of history on the engine. Car has livernois stage 3 ported heads and comp 127500's. it had comp .600 lift springs with comp titanium retainers and vct limiters. Engine was taken apart due to oil burning issue. Livernois put 3 small holes in 3 intake ports when they ported my heads, which they covered under warranty. Prior to engine coming apart it never once made any type of noise, ran and idled great. When new heads were reassembled Livernois put there .600 lift spring on the heads because they said the comp ones varied to much in spring pressure and put steel retainers in because they said mine were not titanium because they were magnetic. Also had different timing chain guides on it because one of mine was cracked. Reused original timing chains, tensioners, vct, vct solenoids, followers and lash adjusters. Car has 62,XXX hard miles on it.

This noise is intermittent, the car was running and driving about 20 minutes prior to making this noise. It will come and go. When i first heard it, I was bleeding the cooling system, car had been running about 15 min when it all of the sudden did it after a slight rev. I freaked and killed the engine and pulled passenger valve cover. Every thing looked good, all followers had equal tension, i disabled fuel and spark and turned it over lash adjuster were pumping oil everything looked good. Only thing i noticed was timing chain tensioner was moving back and forth a bit as engine was cranking. Did not know if this was normal? In video it sounds if noise is in middle of valve cover but some times it sounds like its at the front. With a stethoscope you can defiantly tell its in the front half of the valve cover. My guess is a bad timing chain tensioner. I left them extended for months, should of put a small clamp on them. I'm open to all opinions! Sorry for the book, just wanted all the details out there. Thanks guys!

 

Mach2burnout

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Can't watch your video, it says its private.

Try this. Let sit over night and while cold pull the valve cover that you hear the noise under. Check the timing chain for slack. If the adjuster is bad or leaking down it should have some slack in the chain at this point. The chain should have almost no slack in it at all.

Could be a phaser problem, your just running limiters right not lock outs?
 

rzaenglein

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Privacy setting changed, should be able to view now. Correct just limiters not lock outs. Wouldnt oil pressure bleed off through the feed hole to the tensioner after car is shut off and oil pump is not sending oil and allow some slack?
 

Mach2burnout

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Mine set up for about 30 days and the chains remained tight. I just helped a friend change the cams on a stock engine on an engine stand where it has been for a few months and the chains had no slack or very little slack. I am under the impression that the tensioners are not supposed to bleed down at all. I could be wrong.


EDIT: Listened to the video. That's exactly how mine sounded, but it only did it on cold start up for about 25-30 seconds. I changed valve springs, followers and lash adjusters. It is quiet now. I did not find any damaged followers, and found 2 springs that I believe to be weak. I believe the problem to have been the lash adjusters on mine.
 
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BruceH

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The Livernois springs are known for not working well with anything but lockouts. Even Livernois says to use lockouts with their springs. Could be a phaser noise. Does it go away with any specific motor activity?
 

rzaenglein

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Its never made the noise with the engine cold. Its usually been running for at least 15 minutes. usually started by driving or a small rev. If I let it sit for a bit I can start it back up and no noise. Thats great that they installed their springs then.... are they to stiff for the phaser to adjust the cam against?
 

BruceH

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Its never made the noise with the engine cold. Its usually been running for at least 15 minutes. usually started by driving or a small rev. If I let it sit for a bit I can start it back up and no noise. Thats great that they installed their springs then.... are they to stiff for the phaser to adjust the cam against?

So they took your retainers and didn't install the springs that you wanted while doing warranty work. They also didn't notify you about any of this, you just found out when you had it apart. Is that correct?
 

rzaenglein

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I found out when I got the heads back and saw the steel retainers. I left what they installed because of what they told me.

What's the difference between comp and Livernois springs?
 
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BruceH

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I found out when I got the heads back and saw the steel retainers. I left what they installed because of what they told me.

What's the difference between comp and Livernois springs?

Livernois would be the people to ask. I can tell you that the Livernois 3v spring specs are exactly the same as Trick Flow 3v springs. That would lead me to believe they are the same but I have no way of being positive without confirmation from Livernois.

One of the big selling points of the TFS springs is that they can reuse the stock retainers which is also a selling point with the Livernois springs.

I've never heard of Comp springs having unpredictable rates. I'm not a big shop so all I see are mine and others around me. The springs that are known to fail are Manley.
 

rzaenglein

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Livernois stated that limiters or lockouts work well with there springs. I would also thing if it was a spring issue I would get the noise on both sides of the engine. which i do not. If I run this thing with the valve cover off to try and narrow it down is it gonna throw oil every where or will it be ok at idle?
 

rzaenglein

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Believe I have found my issue. took mach2burnouts advice, let it sit for a few days and pulled the valve covers. Here is what I found



Anyone had this kind of slop after an engine sat for awhile? I dont ever remember seeing this kind of chain slack in any modular I have taken apart. The other side did not have near the slack in it. I could move the chain just a bit but was tight on both sides. I'm putting on new guides and tensioners and will report back
 

Mach2burnout

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Your video is private.

I hope that's it. I did quite a bit of research on several forums and some Ford tsb's before I even opened mine up. Good luck.


Sent from iPhone
 

RLF9409

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Just had mine apart a few weeks ago and with less than 500 miles on the car it had the same slack. Of course it has everything to do with where the chain is in relation to the camshaft. Might be between lopes...
 

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