Zero compression in number 7

[MachRan]

I was having random problems with the car kind of bogging when it starting making boost. I didn't pull the plugs because the car was hot. I drove up to JDM
while the car cooled down. Based on the part number on the coil packs and the invoice from the build he gave me the HTO plugs. I get home, I pull the plugs and it has the 08 style NGK plugs.
I called them Monday and he says that's not possible. I told him that's the way they assembled the car.

Anyway the plugs were fine that were in the car, so I put them back and asked JDM to exchange the plugs towards the correct coil packs.

I put the 08 style coil packs on the car and within a week the motor is trashed.
JDM says bad gas probably. I guess I'll never know but this car was built 4 years ago and only had about 10 passes and 4k miles on it.
We put a scope in it and 4 pistons are damaged. Number 7,8,2 and 3.

The motor was a Saleen 302 3V crate motor long block. CP pistons, Manley rods and Kellogg crank. 60 lb injectors and twin gt 500 pumps. Tuned by JDM.

I know there is a lot of experience here any thoughts?

 

[BruceH]

It's hard to say after 4 years of use. That's longer than the manufacturer gives for a warranty on stock parts. Add forced induction to the picture and it's a crapshoot because lots of little things can be bad news.

It could be just about anything. Do you have any teardown or other pics?

 

[MachRan]

No pics yet. My friend had the car built 4 years ago and rarely drove it. 1000 of the miles were break in miles before the final tune.
Here are the plugs when I took them out for the compression test.

 

[BruceH]

I can see why it was having issues, the gaps are huge on some of the plugs. Of course the oily one isn't good at all. Wonder what happened there? You say your friend didn't drive the car much, did it do this when you bought it or after?

 

[MachRan]

The gaps were fine when I pulled them before I put the different coil packs on the car. The car went 10.99 a few months ago. The only thing that changed was the coil packs.

 

[BruceH]

The gaps were fine when I pulled them before I put the different coil packs on the car. The car went 10.99 a few months ago. The only thing that changed was the coil packs.

This is interesting, stock coil packs? New?

 

[MachRan]

Yeah the car was tuned with 05-07 style coil packs but obviously has the 08 -10 plugs. I switched the coil packs to the correct new Ford coils which are 3/8 of an inch longer.

 

[BruceH]

Yeah the car was tuned with 05-07 style coil packs but obviously has the 08 -10 plugs. I switched the coil packs to the correct new Ford coils which are 3/8 of an inch longer.

People do use the earlier coils with the newer heads. When I switched heads all I changed was the boots.

Are you thinking that the coils had something to do with engine failure? How did the engine fail? What components were affected and how were they affected? Was it just the pistons or was there more to it?

 

[MachRan]

They just put the old style coils back on the car and didnt change the boots. The coils or the gas are the only variables.
It wasn't all at once it was over a week or 2 that I noticed it didn't sound right. Then it started to stall after a cold start and putting it in drive.
The pistons are damaged on the edges and of course the rings. I can't give specifics yet.
I am really wondering if the car should have been retuned when I put the correct Coils on the car.

 

[stkjock]

How old was the gas in the tank?

 

[MachRan]

A week or two

 

[weather man]

I could see a bad coil pack causing a misfire, but not taking out the motor. I vote gas, but looking at the pistons on disassembly may give a better idea of what happened.

 

[one eyed willy]

Coils are the same, just the boots changed. Usually if you have a cop issue you will get a 0358 code showing a coil circuit problem.

 

[Dino Dino Bambino]

We put a scope in it and 4 pistons are damaged. Number 7,8,2 and 3.

My guess is that the engine detonated and broke the piston ring lands.
Either too much timing or not enough fuel.

 

[MachRan]

Coils are the same, just the boots changed. Usually if you have a cop issue you will get a 0358 code showing a coil circuit problem.

Yeah I know they are the same but the boots are 3/8" longer. I'm wondering if having the correct length coils changed the burn and the car should have been retuned. Again I'll never known for sure.

 

[psfracer]

My guess is that the engine detonated and broke the piston ring lands.
Either too much timing or not enough fuel.

I agree with above. It had ZERO to do with the coils. IF the spark plug gaps were correct when checked, (and now obviously look at #8, way off, #2 also, hard to tell at that angle, as well as the rest of them for a boosted application), then that shows excessive heat deformed the ground straps, so too much timing or not enough fuel as stated above.

Who put the NGK spark plugs in? What are they (heat range)? -8s? When were they changed from the Ht0s? and who changed them?

 

[MachRan]

The plugs were the correct heat range and I put them back in after checking them. I checked the gap before I put them back in the car.
This motor never had HTOs in it. But it did have the old style coils until I swapped them for the correct ones. That's when all of this started.
The timing was the same as it has always been. I made no change to the tune
I guess it was the gas.

 

[psfracer]

What did you gap them to, and what are they now? Curious if they all changed or just #8 and #2.

All the coil does is ignite the mixture. Once ignited, the coil is done. Its the timing , fuel, and the a/f ratio that will create the heat.

Time for the teardown. Any indication of a blown head gasket for #7? What does the "damage" of the other four pistons look like? What gas was in the tank? How much timing was in the tune @ WOT?

 

[MachRan]

The plugs were gapped to .030.
Timing at WOT was 14.
I had BP and then Sunoco gas in the car over the last month. I think it was the BP that was in it when it got hurt.
From what my guy could see in the scope he said 4 pistons are flaking on the edges.
No indication the car had a blown head gasket.
I'll update this week after he tears it down.

 

[BruceH]

I agree with above. It had ZERO to do with the coils. IF the spark plug gaps were correct when checked, (and now obviously look at #8, way off, #2 also, hard to tell at that angle, as well as the rest of them for a boosted application), then that shows excessive heat deformed the ground straps, so too much timing or not enough fuel as stated above.

Who put the NGK spark plugs in? What are they (heat range)? -8s? When were they changed from the Ht0s? and who changed them?

The heat range is 7 according to the picture. That's the right heat range for forced induction.

I'd make a wild guess of fuel also.