Idle issues with lito tune..still :/

[teeje]

Sorry I don’t have a picture or sketch of the PCV loop on a 3 valve. I do have a simple test for you. Open the hood and start the engine. With the engine idling pull the hose off of the passenger side valve cover. Put you finger over the tube sticking out of the valve cover and you will feel it drawing air into the engine. That’s the air leak I am referring to. Your idle will probably change as you plug and unplug that valve cover tube. What happens is air goes in the engine through the passenger valve cover and out the drivers valve cover, through the catch can and into the manifold. It bypasses the throttle body so the engine hunts to control the idle. A check valve stops that and you will have less oil drawn into the catch can because the airflow is reduced. Win, Win.

Sweet. I will try this as soon as I can. Will any check valve work? Have a link to one?


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[Midlife Crises]

UPR has some accessories for their line of catch can/separators and list an in-line check valve in a few different sizes. Some auto parts stores have a display board with several OEM style PCV valves in plane view to pick from. You might find an inexpensive check there.

 

[fdjizm]

Sorry I don’t have a picture or sketch of the PCV loop on a 3 valve. I do have a simple test for you. Open the hood and start the engine. With the engine idling pull the hose off of the passenger side valve cover. Put you finger over the tube sticking out of the valve cover and you will feel it drawing air into the engine. That’s the air leak I am referring to. Your idle will probably change as you plug and unplug that valve cover tube. What happens is air goes in the engine through the passenger valve cover and out the drivers valve cover, through the catch can and into the manifold. It bypasses the throttle body so the engine hunts to control the idle. A check valve stops that and you will have less oil drawn into the catch can because the airflow is reduced. Win, Win.

Trying to wrap my brain around this...
The passenger side valve getting vacuum from being in front of the throttle body?

But you don't want it to get vacuum, because the driver side connection (behind the throttle body already pulls a vacuum for the whole PCV system?

So you would place a check valve so that the intake hose (after the throttle body) doesn't suck on (yes suck that shit) the passenger side valve cover?

 

[Midlife Crises]

Well fdjizm. Unwrap your brain and think about it for a minute. The vacuum behind the throttle body is much stronger than the vacuum in the clean air pipe in front of the throttle body. When this strong vacuum is connected to the left valve cover (typical for a 3 valve engine) it will pull air into the crankcase through the right valve cover vent tube. The right valve cover vent tube is typically connected to the clean air duct between the air filter and throttle body (low vacuum). This is how the car came from Ford.
Put a check valve in the line between the clean air duct and the right valve cover to stop air from entering the crankcase and a vacuum will be pulled on the crankcase by the left side. With no draft through the crankcase only blow-by is pulled out through the valve cover and into the intake manifold. Now there is no air bypassing the throttle body. The crankcase is vacuum purged and with less access air flow the catch can will work better. If blow-by exceeds what the left side vent can handle, pressure will push through the check valve and vent to the clean air duct.
Hope this helps.

 

[NickD87]

I read this and think I follow but could you draw this up in like paint?


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[fdjizm]

Well fdjizm. Unwrap your brain and think about it for a minute. The vacuum behind the throttle body is much stronger than the vacuum in the clean air pipe in front of the throttle body. When this strong vacuum is connected to the left valve cover (typical for a 3 valve engine) it will pull air into the crankcase through the right valve cover vent tube. The right valve cover vent tube is typically connected to the clean air duct between the air filter and throttle body (low vacuum). This is how the car came from Ford.
Put a check valve in the line between the clean air duct and the right valve cover to stop air from entering the crankcase and a vacuum will be pulled on the crankcase by the left side. With no draft through the crankcase only blow-by is pulled out through the valve cover and into the intake manifold. Now there is no air bypassing the throttle body. The crankcase is vacuum purged and with less access air flow the catch can will work better. If blow-by exceeds what the left side vent can handle, pressure will push through the check valve and vent to the clean air duct.
Hope this helps.

Illustration, I don't usually bless you guys with my art but I will make an exception...

So if I were to put a one way valve on the line to the passenger side before the throttle body the whole suction action would be better and the passenger side would not have a chance to suck any air into the motor from that side..

OR!!!
What happens when the TB opens and the passenger line gets vacuum?
Because with a check valve we would want the passenger side to only be able to PUSH towards the intake and not pull from it getting air right?

 

[MrAwesome987]

Where is this one way valve information coming from? Is this common 3v knowledge that doesnt seem to be too common, or is there some documentation for this?

 

[Midlife Crises]

Hey Fdjizm. Thank you for the drawing. You have it nailed.
Remember that the throttle body is a Venturi so if there is flow through it the vacuum will always be higher on the backside than the front.

Golly MrAwesome987. This crankcase evacuation system or something similar has been used on motor vehicles in the US for decades. A fixed orifice can be used in place of the PCV valve or incorporated into it to meter air flow. Sort of a controlled vacuum leak. All depends on what the manufacture is trying to do.

 

[teeje]

Which way does the check valve go? Where can I get one that will be suited for this? Which way does it go? I'm confused.


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[RocketcarX]

Replace the oxygen sensor with the correct NTK sensors and put stock coils back on it, you have obvious known issues that are preventing you from being able toe blame the tune revisions.
IF you smelled fuel in the FRPS then common sense tells you to replace it.

 

[teeje]

Replace the oxygen sensor with the correct NTK sensors and put stock coils back on it, you have obvious known issues that are preventing you from being able toe blame the tune revisions.
IF you smelled fuel in the FRPS then common sense tells you to replace it.

I have already replaced it. Issue was present before coils and oxygen sensors.


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[teeje]

Replace the oxygen sensor with the correct NTK sensors and put stock coils back on it, you have obvious known issues that are preventing you from being able toe blame the tune revisions.
IF you smelled fuel in the FRPS then common sense tells you to replace it.

I have already replaced it. Issue was present before coils and oxygen sensors.


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[MrAwesome987]

Golly MrAwesome987. This crankcase evacuation system or something similar has been used on motor vehicles in the US for decades. A fixed orifice can be used in place of the PCV valve or incorporated into it to meter air flow. Sort of a controlled vacuum leak. All depends on what the manufacture is trying to do.

Thanks, I know what a PCV system is, I'm just wondering what changed that made this necessary. There wasn't an issue with idling with the cars stock?

 

[teeje]

Thanks, I know what a PCV system is, I'm just wondering what changed that made this necessary. There wasn't an issue with idling with the cars stock?

I'm wondering if it's just the by product of generally have a ton more airflow than stock that causes air to be sucked in. I ordered my NTK 22060S from summit but I am waiting to see if someone links a good check valve...


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[Midlife Crises]

What changed?
Ford used the fittings, ports and tubing as a fixed orifice and tuned for that amount of air to bypass the throttle body. The manifold, throttle body, air intake, cams, exhaust and tuner have been changed. Now there is a problem returning to idle. Just plug the tube on the right valve cover and go for a short drive. If the issue is better or gone you can go to UPRs website and order a check valve that will fit.

 

[teeje]

What changed?
Ford used the fittings, ports and tubing as a fixed orifice and tuned for that amount of air to bypass the throttle body. The manifold, throttle body, air intake, cams, exhaust and tuner have been changed. Now there is a problem returning to idle. Just plug the tube on the right valve cover and go for a short drive. If the issue is better or gone you can go to UPRs website and order a check valve that will fit.

Passenger side correct?


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[MrAwesome987]

What changed?
Ford used the fittings, ports and tubing as a fixed orifice and tuned for that amount of air to bypass the throttle body. The manifold, throttle body, air intake, cams, exhaust and tuner have been changed. Now there is a problem returning to idle. Just plug the tube on the right valve cover and go for a short drive. If the issue is better or gone you can go to UPRs website and order a check valve that will fit.

Why can't this be tuned for just like it was tuned for when it was stock?

Just trying to understand here...

 

[Midlife Crises]

What if your pulling more air through the PCV system than the throttle body when the engine is idling? How do you control that? How do you get a reliable return to idle under all conditions. What might happen when the AC is on or you turn the steering wheel when stopped? All of the changing conditions in load on the engine can be more easily tuned for if all the air entering the engine passes through the throttle body.
What I don’t understand is why people think it is desirable to pull a draft through the crankcase in the first place. At best it introduces humidity into the crankcase to condense in the oil.

 

[Midlife Crises]

What if your pulling more air through the PCV system than the throttle body when the engine is idling? How do you control that? How do you get a reliable return to idle under all conditions. What might happen when the AC is on or you turn the steering wheel when stopped? All of the changing conditions in load on the engine can be more easily tuned for if all the air entering the engine passes through the throttle body.
What I don’t understand is why people think it is desirable to pull a draft through the crankcase in the first place. At best it introduces humidity into the crankcase to condense in the oil.

 

[Midlife Crises]

SORRY please remove duplicate post.

 

[Midlife Crises]

Passenger side correct?


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Correct.