New engine decision

[ILW84U]

Well I have finally decided it is time for a new block with forged internals. The car is somewhat of a daily driver & sees the track on occasion. As my signature says, I am running a Procharger & want to inrease the boost safely. I have been following various threads on blocks, heads & cams but I still have questions. At this point, I am not looking to go into the 700+ RWHP probably somewhere between 5-600.

1. I am considering a short block built by Livernois, DSS, or Larry H (I will send you a PM). Anybody have any experience with these builders & can provide some pros & cons or some other suggestions?

2. I was originally going to include P & P heads but after reading that the factory heads are good for 800 HP, I think it would be spending on something I don't require since I am not planning on going near that much power. True or false?

3. I also want to do Comp stage 3 cams with upgraded valve springs & retainers. Good addition or not?

When I pull the engine, I am also planning to replace the flywheel, clutch, pilot bearing & slave cylinder. Since many of you have been through this process before (and sometimes twice - Chevy Killer!) any other advice on things I may be missing, overlooking etc. would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Willie]

Sorry I cannot answer any of your questions but I was thinking the same thing about one month ago. Just to set a (bad) example of how us gearhead's distorted line of thinking is sometimes, here's my experience.

Upon reading and checking countless websites on replacing the forged internals, I found a company selling a used 4,500 mile GT500 short block, cams and exhaust manifolds off a GT500. The price was right, $2,000. I started researching about this 5.4 and found a used set of GT500 heads without cams.... imagine that! My car is an '05 GT500 tribute with the original 4.6 with a Whipple. So to have a GT500 engine would be perfect, but....

My short-term "replace the internals" buildup became a long-term project and would probably cost more than $10k. I told my wife this and that I would have spent around $40k in my car; to which she replied, "... and it's STILL not a Shelby." Factor in the total cost made it easy for me to decide NOT to buy these used parts. She then followed up by saying, "So why don't you buy a 'real' GT500?" I could not believe what she was saying. We checked and double-checked our finances, talked to my credit union and before I could sneeze, I was putting down a deposit on a "used" 600-mile '07 GT500. I'm buying the car tomorrow and having it shipped to my house! Am I crazy? You bet. Car crazy! Man, I am soooo lucky to have a wife that understands my obsession..... AND allows me to have it my way (most of the time). I'm one lucky dude.... Now I have to sell either her V6 or my tribute. It's decision time.....hmmm....

 

[ZmanM3]

I have had a very good experience with Larry H building my engine.

 

[dly]

Does Larry H have a web site?

dly 07 GT/CS w/Saleen SC

 

[ZmanM3]

Larry H is a member on this site. You can PM him if you want to get into contact. He just builds engines on the side as he does have another job.

 

[MikeVistaBlue06]

Might want to beef up the rearend with that much power!

Guys, any ideas on what he needs to do to the 3rd member?

Thx,

Mike

 

[yzfone]

+1 for Larry

 

[06GT_Vert]

Another PLUS for Larry_H ........He builds a nice motor & keeps you updated!!

Rearends are fine - these 8.8 fine for 9 sec cars!!

 

[Mustangretribution]

Why not just re use your stock block, its as strong or stronger then anything on the aftermarket and you will save some cash while your at it, Just my two cents. this is of course if your staying with the 4.6

But yeah Larry H does good work

 

[ILW84U]

Why not just re use your stock block, its as strong or stronger then anything on the aftermarket and you will save some cash while your at it, Just my two cents. this is of course if your staying with the 4.6

But yeah Larry H does good work

Shipping would probably cost me a good chunk of what a new block is worth. I will also have a good shortblock left over that I can use if I ever run into problems or sell for more than just the cost of the block.

I haven't heard any comments on the head questions?????

 

[ChevyKiller]

Good thinking. The cost of another block is well worth the piece of mind of knowing you have another motor to put back in the car. You don't want to be down forever while you're waiting on everything or if something comes up. Build the shortblock on it's own and then make the easy switch when it's ready IMO.

For your questions...

I know Mike Schropp at Livernois really well and you couldn't go wrong working with him. I know for a fact he stands behind his products above and beyond. Guys like Don W and a few others who have worked with him can trell you stories of them coming out of pocket THOUSANDS to make sure the customer gets exactly what they want. I would refer him in a minute.

I only know of 1 guys who used DSS and he was happy with the service and quality but's that's all I know of personally.

As far as Larry - I know of 3 people personally that Larry has built for and they all seem very pleased. I haven't seen any big numbers yet pushed with his S197 builds but I know they are coming with Ron. I can attest to the service he seems to give his cusomers and availability seems great.

IMO - you couldn't go wrong with Livernois or Boss 330, and Larry is probably close to being on that list but I just don't have much personal experience with him. I would recommend him however, just based on the experince Ron has had with him.

#2 - save the money. Upgrade the valve train with titanium springs/retainers, inconel valves, and some brass guides. Leave the heads and cams alone - they are fine as-is. The factory heads is very general of a statement. The heads and cams are great, but I would upgrade the valve train for where you are going.

#3 - Answered above.

As matt brought up, I would put a better diff, girdle, moser axels, and some suspension goodies on that list as well. Use the money you were going to use for the comp cams to get the best rear set-up. The power isn't for shit if you can't hook it.

 

[ChevyKiller]

Sorry I cannot answer any of your questions but I was thinking the same thing about one month ago. Just to set a (bad) example of how us gearhead's distorted line of thinking is sometimes, here's my experience.

Upon reading and checking countless websites on replacing the forged internals, I found a company selling a used 4,500 mile GT500 short block, cams and exhaust manifolds off a GT500. The price was right, $2,000. I started researching about this 5.4 and found a used set of GT500 heads without cams.... imagine that! My car is an '05 GT500 tribute with the original 4.6 with a Whipple. So to have a GT500 engine would be perfect, but....

My short-term "replace the internals" buildup became a long-term project and would probably cost more than $10k. I told my wife this and that I would have spent around $40k in my car; to which she replied, "... and it's STILL not a Shelby." Factor in the total cost made it easy for me to decide NOT to buy these used parts. She then followed up by saying, "So why don't you buy a 'real' GT500?" I could not believe what she was saying. We checked and double-checked our finances, talked to my credit union and before I could sneeze, I was putting down a deposit on a "used" 600-mile '07 GT500. I'm buying the car tomorrow and having it shipped to my house! Am I crazy? You bet. Car crazy! Man, I am soooo lucky to have a wife that understands my obsession..... AND allows me to have it my way (most of the time). I'm one lucky dude.... Now I have to sell either her V6 or my tribute. It's decision time.....hmmm....

Get rid of the tribute and let her keep her car. Or sell the sixer and give her the tribute. She deserves it.

 

[MikeVistaBlue06]

As matt brought up, I would put a better diff, girdle, moser axels, and some suspension goodies on that list as well. Use the money you were going to use for the comp cams to get the best rear set-up. The power isn't for shit if you can't hook it.

Thanks guys, this was the rearend type info I was thinking he'd need with that much power.

Mike

 

[ChevyKiller]

oops - I called you matt

Most guys forget about the rear or just do CA's and think they're set and then wonder why they don't run much faster with all their new power.

The rear is EVERYTHING on these cars. The 60' is your first starting point. Once you make over 500 rwhp, if you ain't 60' at least mid to low 1.5's, you aint right in the rear. For 600+ at least...

BMR extreme anti roll bar
Detroit Locker (or equivalent)
RACE Upper and lower CA's (not steeda type)
QA1, santruff, or equivalent shocks
LPW low profile girdle or equivalent
panhrad bar
moser or equivalent tube welded axles
subframe connectors
3" studs
WELD THE SHIT IN

Good rubber and right tire hieght to gear ratio.

 

[ILW84U]

Good thinking. The cost of another block is well worth the piece of mind of knowing you have another motor to put back in the car. You don't want to be down forever while you're waiting on everything or if something comes up. Build the shortblock on it's own and then make the easy switch when it's ready IMO.

For your questions...

I know Mike Schropp at Livernois really well and you couldn't go wrong working with him. I know for a fact he stands behind his products above and beyond. Guys like Don W and a few others who have worked with him can trell you stories of them coming out of pocket THOUSANDS to make sure the customer gets exactly what they want. I would refer him in a minute.

I only know of 1 guys who used DSS and he was happy with the service and quality but's that's all I know of personally.

As far as Larry - I know of 3 people personally that Larry has built for and they all seem very pleased. I haven't seen any big numbers yet pushed with his S197 builds but I know they are coming with Ron. I can attest to the service he seems to give his cusomers and availability seems great.

IMO - you couldn't go wrong with Livernois or Boss 330, and Larry is probably close to being on that list but I just don't have much personal experience with him. I would recommend him however, just based on the experince Ron has had with him.

#2 - save the money. Upgrade the valve train with titanium springs/retainers, inconel valves, and some brass guides. Leave the heads and cams alone - they are fine as-is. The factory heads is very general of a statement. The heads and cams are great, but I would upgrade the valve train for where you are going.

#3 - Answered above.

As matt brought up, I would put a better diff, girdle, moser axels, and some suspension goodies on that list as well. Use the money you were going to use for the comp cams to get the best rear set-up. The power isn't for shit if you can't hook it.

Thanks for all the above. I was actually waiting for your opinions. Is this what you meant by suspension goodies etc.?

BMR extreme anti roll bar
Detroit Locker (or equivalent)
RACE Upper and lower CA's (not steeda type)
QA1, santruff, or equivalent shocks
LPW low profile girdle or equivalent
panhrad bar
moser or equivalent tube welded axles
subframe connectors
3" studs
WELD THE SHIT IN

Good rubber and right tire height to gear ratio.

I have CHE upper & lower CA's (are they NFG with this much power?) I also have MT ET Street Radials 295/45/17. I know they aren't as good as real drag tires but they should hook up OK.

 

[ChevyKiller]

The Che are good pieces IMO. I have metco and love them but I know people pushing some good power with the che as well.

The Et Streets are good tires, but personally I'd go taller if I was you.

 

[MLC40]

oops - I called you matt

Most guys forget about the rear or just do CA's and think they're set and then wonder why they don't run much faster with all their new power.

The rear is EVERYTHING on these cars. The 60' is your first starting point. Once you make over 500 rwhp, if you ain't 60' at least mid to low 1.5's, you aint right in the rear. For 600+ at least...

BMR extreme anti roll bar
Detroit Locker (or equivalent)
RACE Upper and lower CA's (not steeda type)
QA1, santruff, or equivalent shocks
LPW low profile girdle or equivalent
panhrad bar
moser or equivalent tube welded axles
subframe connectors
3" studs
WELD THE SHIT IN

Good rubber and right tire hieght to gear ratio.

I agree, but I have a question. What is wrong with the Steeda LCAs? My car is down for the winter and I am making a list of mods for the Spring. My list is close to yours except I was planning on buying Steeda CA's.

Thanks in advance.

 

[ChevyKiller]

The steeda use cheap polyeurethane bushings in the CA's. Now even the super strong metco use a poly bushing as well but they use a combination of poly, aluminum and steel where the steeda just use straight poly bushings.

These bushings tend to crack under heavy stress. I broke a set of steedas twice and steeda did offer to keep sending me replacements for free but I didn't want to deal with it and I was only running 500 rwhp back then. I put on the metco's over a year ago and have no issues other than the upper CA shifting and throwing my pinion off on hard launches. I welded that thing in and that problem is now solved.

Most of your 'street' CA's are going to use the poly only bushings and they are not going to hold up under heavy lanuches at the track for long and is hwy I refer to getting 'race' type CA's

Most all 'race' CA's will use the aluminum sandwiched poly bushings.

Oh, one other BIG thing I noticed...

Do not relocate your lower CA's unless you absolutely have to. In fact, don't relocate ANYTHING in the rear unless you absolutely have to. The factory location for just about everything in the rear is the best spot hands down for performance. Everything I have in the rear is in the stock location.

 

[MLC40]

The steeda use cheap polyeurethane bushings in the CA's. Now even the super strong metco use a poly bushing as well but they use a combination of poly, aluminum and steel where the steeda just use straight poly bushings.

These bushings tend to crack under heavy stress. I broke a set of steedas twice and steeda did offer to keep sending me replacements for free but I didn't want to deal with it and I was only running 500 rwhp back then. I put on the metco's over a year ago and have no issues other than the upper CA shifting and throwing my pinion off on hard launches. I welded that thing in and that problem is now solved.

Most of your 'street' CA's are going to use the poly only bushings and they are not going to hold up under heavy lanuches at the track for long and is hwy I refer to getting 'race' type CA's

Most all 'race' CA's will use the aluminum sandwiched poly bushings.

Oh, one other BIG thing I noticed...

Do not relocate your lower CA's unless you absolutely have to. In fact, don't relocate ANYTHING in the rear unless you absolutely have to. The factory location for just about everything in the rear is the best spot hands down for performance. Everything I have in the rear is in the stock location.

Thanks, I was thinking of going with Helm ends since I am not worried about NVH. I will look into Metco CAs. As for the relo brackets, I was planning on those too. My reason is/was I feel I'm wasting too much energy pulling the front wheels off the ground. Once again I was planning on buying the Steeda units, weld in only. I will check, but I am pretty sure they have a mounting point that is close to the stock location.