Roll Cages Road Race/Autocross/Driving Days vs Drag Race

[Memphis]

Are there any differences in the types of roll cages other than the complexity/points of the cage? Does a cage need to be of a specific type to compete in NASA for example vs a car running 10 sec at the Drag strip. Sorry if this isnt even as clear as mud. Coffee just not kicking in today. To give you an idea of what I was looking at cage wise before these questions occurred to me: http://www.americanmuscle.com/sw-8point-rollbar-0509.html

Feel free to flame me. I did search, didn't find an absolute answer.

 

[stkjock]

different series do have different requirements.

a 6 point will have you be ok in most events

 

[jymontoya]

Maximum Motorsports makes some nice ones....

http://www.maximummotorsports.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=121_126_414

 

[Roadracer350]

Jegs makes some decent weld in at a good price
8pt
http://www.jegs.com/i/Jegster/550/949303K/10002/-1
10pt
http://www.jegs.com/i/Jegster/550/949304K/10002/-1
12pt
http://www.jegs.com/i/Jegster/550/949305K/10002/-1

 

[Mr. WHO]

Road race cages tend to have whats called Nascar bars on the sides and a main hoop diagonal. Most people, since the driver is the only one in the car 99% of the time, only put it on the drivers side and use an x brace or straight door bars with a few spreaders on the passenger side. If you plan to run in NASA or some other form, you will have to have a Nascar bar on the drivers side, minimum, if not on both sides.

In drag racing your not to worried about turning left or right, possible to get t-boned, so there not a need for Nascar bars or any other. Aslong as you have the hoop and whatever else is needed for the mph/et you run your good.

Theres abit more detail to it, which can go on and on, but those are the main two differences.

 

[DUFUS]

What makes Maximum Motorsports so much more $ than the (what appear to be comparable) others? As with most things in life, do you get what you pay for? I'm not looking for a "competition" worthy setup but had recently gotten interested in improving safety for HPDE/track days, and was thinking of a 4-pt.
Does anyone have an idea of installation pricing?

 

[JesseW.]

make sure you read the rule book for the group you are running with. i was checking into 6-8 point cages so i could do time trials and hill climbs and the wall thickness wasn't thick enough on any of the tubes for the "drag racing" 6 points.

 

[speedform]

Try this. Appears to be a nice quality setup if you just plan to run HPDE events and eventually plan to return the car back to stock. I think the MM setup requires some cutting/trimming of the rear seat plastic panels for proper fitment. Of course is MM kit is a lot cheaper.

http://www.cooltechllc.com/Boss/Boss_Roll_Bar.shtml

 

[Mr. WHO]

What makes Maximum Motorsports so much more $ than the (what appear to be comparable) others? As with most things in life, do you get what you pay for? I'm not looking for a "competition" worthy setup but had recently gotten interested in improving safety for HPDE/track days, and was thinking of a 4-pt.
Does anyone have an idea of installation pricing?

You get what you pay for. Just ensure you look at the rule books for what you want to do ad ensure you get the right item. Im currently looking into one myself and Im looking into a 4 point. Remember any thickness (with what has been put out there) will work for safety, installed correctly, but ensure you get the right one for competition.

 

[DILYSI Dave]

The big difference is that most drag cages don't include a main hoop diagonal for some reason. That's Roll Bar 101 in a track car.

 

[FR500GT]

I like the lower base bracket design that MM uses on there 4 point cage. Any problem running this basic cage for a non-comp car?

 

[OkieSnuffBox]

Try this. Appears to be a nice quality setup if you just plan to run HPDE events and eventually plan to return the car back to stock. I think the MM setup requires some cutting/trimming of the rear seat plastic panels for proper fitment. Of course is MM kit is a lot cheaper.

http://www.cooltechllc.com/Boss/Boss_Roll_Bar.shtml

No diagonal.

 

[jymontoya]

Try this. Appears to be a nice quality setup if you just plan to run HPDE events and eventually plan to return the car back to stock. I think the MM setup requires some cutting/trimming of the rear seat plastic panels for proper fitment. Of course is MM kit is a lot cheaper.

http://www.cooltechllc.com/Boss/Boss_Roll_Bar.shtml

You can just leave the rear panels out while the roll bar is bolted in... then put them back when the track season is over...

 

[Sky Render]

Try this. Appears to be a nice quality setup if you just plan to run HPDE events and eventually plan to return the car back to stock. I think the MM setup requires some cutting/trimming of the rear seat plastic panels for proper fitment. Of course is MM kit is a lot cheaper.

http://www.cooltechllc.com/Boss/Boss_Roll_Bar.shtml

That looks more like an "appearance" roll bar than an actual, functioning one.

Drag race roll bars are woefully inadequate for road racing use, though they are acceptable for simply driving in a straight line. The Maximum Motorsports bar is probably one of the best "pre-made" roll cages out there and would probably be acceptable for a mixed-use street/track car.

If you want a cage for a full-on, track-only race car, you're going to want to strip the chassis and take it to an actual shop to have one custom made.

Whatever you do, make sure you pay close attention to the "bottom" parts of the cage. That thing is worthless to you if it punctures through the floor during a rollover.

 

[Philostang]

I thought Sound Guy Dave did a pretty detailed write up on roll bars?

Anyway, as has been mentioned: rulebook, rulebook, rulebook! Don't go by a generic recommendation. If your intent is to run in any sort of competition environment, you should look at the actual rulebook for that specific organization and that specific competition class. If you're plan is to run in several groups, look at all of those rulebooks. Things like number of bends, wall thickness, distance of seat to harness bar, etc., all come under scrutiny for different groups. So do your homework.

If you're just doing HPDE events, then a simple 4-point bar is fine. I would strongly recommend you do not use one that mounts the main hoop on the floor. The rear bulkhead is a much better place in these cars (see MM's bar for an example).

Also, when shopping take a look at the installation directions. The less expensive bar kits come completely un-welded, so unless you can do this yourself you're in for a substantial installation expense. Suddenly bar offerings like the MM one are not so much more expensive. Even still, the MM bar does require a modest amount of welding (just two tubes, but still, if you don't weld, you need someone who can to get it done)...and as I recall, it required more than a modest amount of wrestling that really made it a two person gig (thank you SGDave!).

Best,
-j

 

[kevinatfms]

i started a thread about base plates and where to weld the main hoop into the chassis but it also has some great reference photos for height, position of bars. my cage builder is going over the photos and designs from a few of the FR500 cars and will start my build at the begining of the year.

thread
http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92990

 

[Roadracer350]

Why not just buy a basic 10pt cage and add on from their? You are going to have to make reinforcements to the floor and your already going to be welding so get a basic cage and add the CRAPCAR bracing, hoop diagonal etc. As long as you use quality tubing and make good welds with proper gusseting you should be good to go!

 

[OkieSnuffBox]

Drag race roll bars are woefully inadequate for road racing use, though they are acceptable for simply driving in a straight line.

And I've never understood that. Who hasn't seen plenty of drag racing incidents end up in a roll-over or similar?

I guess it's simply a participation thing? Many guys won't go if they have to have XXX of safety equipment?

If you're just doing HPDE events, then a simple 4-point bar is fine. I would strongly recommend you do not use one that mounts the main hoop on the floor. The rear bulkhead is a much better place in these cars (see MM's bar for an example).

Also, when shopping take a look at the installation directions. The less expensive bar kits come completely un-welded, so unless you can do this yourself you're in for a substantial installation expense. Suddenly bar offerings like the MM one are not so much more expensive. Even still, the MM bar does require a modest amount of welding (just two tubes, but still, if you don't weld, you need someone who can to get it done)...and as I recall, it required more than a modest amount of wrestling that really made it a two person gig (thank you SGDave!).

Best,
-j

I agree, but if properly designed, I don't see anything inherently wrong with a bolt-in for HPDE use.....again, if properly designed (and properly installed as well).

There are plenty of high profile Miata wrecks that have kept driver/passenger safe in roll over accidents using things like the bolt-in Hard Dog Hard Core or Boss Frog bars.

For example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMmjaaSQP08

 

[DILYSI Dave]

I'll take a well designed bolt in over a poorly designed weld in every time.


Then I'll go grab my MIG and weld it in.

 

[Sky Render]

And I've never understood that. Who hasn't seen plenty of drag racing incidents end up in a roll-over or similar?

I guess it's simply a participation thing? Many guys won't go if they have to have XXX of safety equipment?

That's possible. Have you ever seen the Pike's Peak challenge? A lot of different types of vehicles are there, and the roll cages run the gambit from full-on FIA rally cages to "drift" cages that are little more than bling. Terry Fair had a very interesting rant on what constitutes a "proper" cage for wheel-to-wheel racing. Apparently there were a lot of wrecks this year, and it showed the weakness of different cage types.