Somewhat Overheating on Road Courses

[martin_nj]

Going to ask a sort of silly question: what is the difference between the brand name radiators (Be cool, Mishimoto, Fluidyne, etc.) and the aftermarket (presumably Chinese made) ones like: ebay radiator
They are T-6061 fully aluminum construction, 3 rows, etc.
FLAME ON!!

One word: quality

to add more to this, the chinese ones could potentially not fit perfectly and in general will give you more headaches. but they should perform the same in theory once you've got them in the car. this is based of putting a ebay one in my GF's passat

 

[CCS86]

I'm curious to see what kind of improvement you could realize with the stock cooling hardware and improvements to airflow routing. The stock radiator seems well shrouded, but between the small grill opening and high pressure zone under the hood at speed, there is a lot of room to improve.

Since the newer one piece GT500 heat extractor vent won't fit well on the GT's cowl, I'm giving some thought to ordering and dropping in twin vents from the older GT500's:

7R3Z-16C630-AB
7R3Z-16C630-AC

I don't have any dimensions for them, but my eye thinks they could fit nicely side by side, just behind the start of the cowl. This would give airflow a great path to pass through the radiator and out the hood. Adding a more open grill (or modifying the stocker) would improve this even more. So not only would you be passing more air through the radiator, you will be extracting hot air from under the hood (better intake temps), avoiding high speed instability from excess pressure under the front of the car, and even modestly improving aerodynamic drag.

 

[CCS86]

A quick chop to show the idea...

 

[a50cobra]

A quick chop to show the idea...

It looks like it would help

 

[ddd4114]

I decided to take the "cheap" route, and I just installed the Saleen grille and Boss oil cooler. I also diluted the coolant with a little bit of distilled water to get the mix closer to 60/40. I don't want to go much above 70/30 because there is still a chance that I will drive the car when it's below freezing outside.

The new grille is much more open, and I think it actually looks better (cleaner) than the OEM one with the fog lights.

The oil cooler wasn't complicated to install by any means, but it was a bit of a pain in the ass. The bolt that holds to cooler to the filter base requires a 14mm hex, not a 9/16 as many sites indicate. My 9/16 hex removed the OEM fitting easily, but it didn't have a snowball's chance in hell of working with the replacement bolt for the cooler.

My only concern is that the new lower radiator hose looks much more restrictive with the addition of the oil cooler lines. I'm not sure what sort of effect it has on coolant flow once the thermostat is fully open. I would ASSume the radiator core is a lot more restrictive than the hoses, but I guess I'll figure that out for myself either way.

I won't get a chance to drive on a track for about a month, so I'll check back at the end of July and report an update.

Thanks again for everybody's feedback. This has turned into a pretty informative thread.

 

[bullitt6019]

I am attending the Mid America Shelby and Ford Nationals in Tulsa and ran Hallett Motor Circuit today with ambient temps from the mid 80's in the AM sessions to low 90's in the afternoon sessions. I installed the Saleen grill and it seemed to work pretty well. No real temp issues to speak of. All I have is the factory temp gauge, which did not register much movement.

 

[ArizonaGT]

Don't forget the water wetter...drained 36 oz out of my rad then dumped in 3 bottles WW...no heat issues on track combined w/ a high-flow grille

 

[DUFUS]

I decided to take the "cheap" route, and I just installed the Saleen grille and Boss oil cooler. I also diluted the coolant with a little bit of distilled water to get the mix closer to 60/40. I don't want to go much above 70/30 because there is still a chance that I will drive the car when it's below freezing outside.

The new grille is much more open, and I think it actually looks better (cleaner) than the OEM one with the fog lights.

The oil cooler wasn't complicated to install by any means, but it was a bit of a pain in the ass. The bolt that holds to cooler to the filter base requires a 14mm hex, not a 9/16 as many sites indicate. My 9/16 hex removed the OEM fitting easily, but it didn't have a snowball's chance in hell of working with the replacement bolt for the cooler.

My only concern is that the new lower radiator hose looks much more restrictive with the addition of the oil cooler lines. I'm not sure what sort of effect it has on coolant flow once the thermostat is fully open. I would ASSume the radiator core is a lot more restrictive than the hoses, but I guess I'll figure that out for myself either way.

I won't get a chance to drive on a track for about a month, so I'll check back at the end of July and report an update.

Thanks again for everybody's feedback. This has turned into a pretty informative thread.

Worked for me. 2-day HPDE with newly installed Boss oil cooler went fine. No more 300 degree oil. ECT seemed to stay in check also, of course the only monitoring I can do is via the factory gauge, but it didn't make any alarming motion towards "red". Just slightly elevated when I was really pushing it. The ambient temps were in the 80's, so conditions weren't extreme. But if it gets into the 90's I'd probably stay at home anyway. Not a fan of real summer HEAT. How do people live in godforsaken states like...(fill in blank)?
I have the Calif Special grille and also cut some additional holes in the center (black plastic behind the actual bars), so airflow should be improved. I never did like the std fog light look, and now I have another reason to be glad I don't have it.
I wouldn't worry about the appearance of restricted flow in the new lower radiator hose. After all, what is restricted via the reconfigured rad hose adapter is going through the oil cooler, no?

 

[Digital_Synapse]

That said, if you want to cool the engine down a bit, install the Boss oil cooler. If that's still hotter than you want, then install the Boss 302S grill to add more airflow. If that's still too hot, install the Ford Racing radiator M-8005-MGT. If that's still too hot, then add the Ford Racing M-6642-MBA external oil-to-air cooler. If that's still too hot, then buy a Ford Racing Boss 302S race car.

Love this, lol.

Going from the stock grille to the Saleen grille, I saw an average 8° temp drop driving my car hard down here in Florida with 98° ambient temps and 90% humidity. Also, the GTCS lower fascia allows more air flow IMO. But I didn't check the temps like I did with the upper grille.

How did you measure temps?

 

[c_reber]

A quick question on the cooling... I have a `13 GT ordered from ford. It has the GT Track pack installed. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this includes the boss 302 oil cooler and radiator? Do you think this help cooling, or possibly need aftermarket stuff to really make a difference?

 

[devildog1679]

A quick question on the cooling... I have a `13 GT ordered from ford. It has the GT Track pack installed. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this includes the boss 302 oil cooler and radiator? Do you think this help cooling, or possibly need aftermarket stuff to really make a difference?

If you track your car that set up should be fine for your average weekend track day. I just don't like the lack of a thermostat on the oil cooler.

 

[JAJ]

If you track your car that set up should be fine for your average weekend track day. I just don't like the lack of a thermostat on the oil cooler.

The absence of a thermostat on the cooler is not a factor. Until the coolant thermostat opens, there's no flow in the radiator circuit, so the water in the oil cooler just warms up with the oil. When the coolant thermostat opens, the water coming through is 190 degrees less the reduction from the radiator, and there still won't be a lot of flow unless the engine's working hard.

 

[ArizonaGT]

My B302 has never had a cooling (limp mode) issue, and I push the car hard; I always use a high-flow grille on-track. Get one from Roush, Saleen, or the 302S grille along w/ the Ford oil cooler and you will avoid that problem.

That does not mean my oil temps are optimal, however--I will be installing an aftermarket oil cooler like one from CoolTech or FRPP eventually.

 

[Sky Render]

The absence of a thermostat on the cooler is not a factor. Until the coolant thermostat opens, there's no flow in the radiator circuit, so the water in the oil cooler just warms up with the oil. When the coolant thermostat opens, the water coming through is 190 degrees less the reduction from the radiator, and there still won't be a lot of flow unless the engine's working hard.

This^^

The oil cooler that uses engine coolant also helps heat up the oil to operating temperature faster.

 

[bullitt6019]

C-reber,
You are correct. The track pack equipped 13 GT includes the radiator and oil cooler from the boss.
I have 13' DIB ordered as well....

 

[Deimos]

If you track your car that set up should be fine for your average weekend track day. I just don't like the lack of a thermostat on the oil cooler.

This wasn't my experience. I was at Watkins Glen with my Local PCA doing a DE a few weeks ago. Aside from some Hawk HT-10 pads my 2013 GT track pack was 100% stock.

What I noted was that my water temps were close to 240F at the end of a 20 minute session and the oil temp gauge was very close to the yellow strip. I am no expert but that seemed too high to me. Ambient temps were low 80s.

In a few weeks I'll have a chance to get back on the course at Summit Point. I'll have some Water Wetter in the cooling system this time. Hopefully it helps.

 

[ddd4114]

UPDATE

So far, the oil cooler and Saleen grille seem to be working. I did an HPDE at VIR last weekend, which was the first time I've been out on track since I started this thread. My max oil temperature was 264 degF, and my max coolant temperature was 223 degF. The oil temperature is completely reasonable for full synthetic, so I have no concern there. The coolant temperature is lower than the 230 degF I experienced last month, but it's still a bit higher than I'd like. I'll keep an eye on it.

I'm going back to Mid-Ohio next weekend, so I'll be able to compare my temperatures to the last time I was there in April. I'll also log data at Gingerman the following weekend. I'm not planning to go back to Nelson Ledges in the near future, but when I do, that will be the final test.

Thanks everyone for your input.

 

[neema]

UPDATE

So far, the oil cooler and Saleen grille seem to be working. I did an HPDE at VIR last weekend, which was the first time I've been out on track since I started this thread. My max oil temperature was 264 degF, and my max coolant temperature was 223 degF. The oil temperature is completely reasonable for full synthetic, so I have no concern there. The coolant temperature is lower than the 230 degF I experienced last month, but it's still a bit higher than I'd like. I'll keep an eye on it.

I'm going back to Mid-Ohio next weekend, so I'll be able to compare my temperatures to the last time I was there in April. I'll also log data at Gingerman the following weekend. I'm not planning to go back to Nelson Ledges in the near future, but when I do, that will be the final test.

Thanks everyone for your input.

what are you using to log data? forgive me if it's stated earlier in this thread

 

[ddd4114]

I'm using a DashDAQ with a few external inputs. It gets coolant temperature via the obd2 port, and it gets oil temperature from a thermistor I put in the drain plug.

 

[ArizonaGT]

I'm using a DashDAQ with a few external inputs. It gets coolant temperature via the obd2 port, and it gets oil temperature from a thermistor I put in the drain plug.

That's clever, I like the idea of not having to drill and tap another hole in the oil pan to get temp data. How do you send the signal from that to the ECU (or wherever?)? What are you using to read the temp or output voltage?