Sweet HPDE Weather

[Vapour Trails]

I will attending an HPDE this weekend, both days..all day. Awesome right?

Saturday: Rain. High 46F, Low 46F
Sunday: Cloudy w/ 40% chance of rain or snow, high 41F, low 32F

Good thing I got those brake cooling ducts and relocated my IAT to compensate for heat soak.

Current Conditions as I type this: 68F, Sunny

 

[stkjock]

ahahhaah

have fun, guess you'll be keeping the heater on!

 

[SoundGuyDave]

In the "lemons to lemonade" vein, this could actually be a huge opportunity to work on some techniques! Running in the rain absolutely REQIURES you to be smooth with your throttle and steering inputs, and those will translate beautifully to the dry... Take careful mental notes on how the car behaves as you push towards the traction limit. When you're approaching apex, and start rolling on the gas, you'll feel the car transition from neutral into an understeer. Note how the car feels and acts right as it starts to transition. Next time you're on a dry track, throw in enough gas to get that EXACT feeling going again, and I think you'll be surprised at how much sooner you can roll into the throttle!

For steering, try the following experiment: On a low-medium speed corner (With good runoff!), try turning in a little early, but SNAP the wheel over. I guarantee you'll just push towards the outside of the corner. Next time by, use the same turn-in point, but roll the wheel over slowly and smoothly. Suddenly, the car will be able to turn! Next, try slowly speeding up the wheel input rate, but keep it smooth. Note how the car feels just before it starts to push. Now, next time you're on a dry track, try applying the same slow/smooth input, increasing entry speed until you start getting the same "pre-push" feeling.

There you go! You just increased your corner entry speed, AND your corner exit speeds...

Oh, and a wet track is also a great place to hone your recovery skills!

 

[DusterRT]

I was actually disappointed I didn't get a wet track day last year (for the reasons mentioned by SGD)...they were all warm and sunny days. Of course, the only complaints there are the sun burns.

 

[Vapour Trails]

In the "lemons to lemonade" vein, this could actually be a huge opportunity to work on some techniques! Running in the rain absolutely REQIURES you to be smooth with your throttle and steering inputs, and those will translate beautifully to the dry... Take careful mental notes on how the car behaves as you push towards the traction limit. When you're approaching apex, and start rolling on the gas, you'll feel the car transition from neutral into an understeer. Note how the car feels and acts right as it starts to transition. Next time you're on a dry track, throw in enough gas to get that EXACT feeling going again, and I think you'll be surprised at how much sooner you can roll into the throttle!

For steering, try the following experiment: On a low-medium speed corner (With good runoff!), try turning in a little early, but SNAP the wheel over. I guarantee you'll just push towards the outside of the corner. Next time by, use the same turn-in point, but roll the wheel over slowly and smoothly. Suddenly, the car will be able to turn! Next, try slowly speeding up the wheel input rate, but keep it smooth. Note how the car feels just before it starts to push. Now, next time you're on a dry track, try applying the same slow/smooth input, increasing entry speed until you start getting the same "pre-push" feeling.

There you go! You just increased your corner entry speed, AND your corner exit speeds...

Oh, and a wet track is also a great place to hone your recovery skills!

No doubt that from the viewpoint of acquiring skills, rain is great. I know I need to work on smoothness, especially in braking (I still tend to stand on the brakes late).

When we walk the course it won't be that fun though; and I'll just have to hang out in my car when not running on the track instead of talking to the other drivers.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

No doubt that from the viewpoint of acquiring skills, rain is great. I know I need to work on smoothness, especially in braking (I still tend to stand on the brakes late).

Hmmm... you just described my braking style to a "T." The trick with the hard/late braking is to be smooth going on AND off the pedal. When you push the back of the envelope like that, ANY over-aggressive pedal action will seriously unsettle the car. I tend to think of it as a weight-transfer pedal, rather than a brake pedal. In the same way that you wouldn't whip-saw the wheel over, you can't just lam on the brake pedal, either, and for exactly the same reason. Once you get the weight transferred to the front, though, your braking power is significantly magnified. On the other hand, the smooth release almost forces you to trailbrake, so...

When we walk the course it won't be that fun though; and I'll just have to hang out in my car when not running on the track instead of talking to the other drivers.

What, you're saying that what we do has a large social component? "I am shocked. Shocked!!" (bonus points for identifying the movie reference!) Yes, the weather does tend to suck the life out of you in the paddock, but that's another good reason to befriend somebody with a LARGE trailer!!

 

[Chris B.]

What, you're saying that what we do has a large social component? "I am shocked. Shocked!!" (bonus points for identifying the movie reference!) Yes, the weather does tend to suck the life out of you in the paddock, but that's another good reason to befriend somebody with a LARGE trailer!!

Forget befrending the somebody with the large trailer, befriend somebody with the motor home and double stack trailer.

 

[Vapour Trails]

Today was day 1 and the rain held off for the most part, but the track was pre-soaked and slick most of the day. In the morning will did some drills: slalom, figure 8 and accident avoidance.

In the afternoon the instructors took us out for the opening 5 laps. My first instructor got my car sideways 3 times in 5 laps. I cannot say I was terribly impressed by that, but he got the car under control quickly each time so my confidence in his abilities increased. He generally had good things to say about the handling and braking.

My thrid and final instructor was by far the best. He gave constant instruction and advice as we went along, compared to others which reserved most of the commentary till the end. He seemed genuinely enthusiastic about making me a better driver and loved the car.

I had some reservations about some of track action while I was watching other groups. There were really too many cars out considering the length of the course (1.3 miles - ~ 15 cars). Moreover, too many slow cars mixed in with fast cars and drivers which created traffic jams. The frustrated drivers behind began simultaneously passing, coming side by side in corners. Honestly, it looked like wheel-to-wheel racing at some points. The instructors never really gave us any rules regarding passing, but I didn't try anything stupid and cut back behind slower cars several times when I thought I might not get them before the next corner. I don't have a frame of reference for these events, but I thought HPDEs were generally run with more care.



And finally, there was a wreck. A young guy in a brand new Hyundai Genesis spun out and went into a tire wall. Airbags deployed, the windshield cracked and the bumper was ripped off. The driver and instructor were fine, but the kid must feel sick. Luckily for him, it should be covered under our provincial car insurance because it is a "school".

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Wow!! You had a HELL of a day!!

Yes, "green" tracks can be a handful! Once the rain washes down the thin layer of rubber on the line, traction falls off quickly. And here I sit, with day three of rain pounding down, heading for the track tomorrow... I feel your pain!

It sounds like you had a mixed bag of instructors. The last type, communicative, pertinent, supportive, is the type you should be looking for. As an instructor, it does absolutely NO good watching a student botch a technique for 20 minutes straight, then explaining how they did it wrong in the pits afterward. You have to counsel the student and correct the errors right on the spot. Next time out, see if you can find that guy again, and get him to ride with you for the full day.

Traffic issues: First, I agree that 15 cars on such a tiny track are just too many, particularly for a "novice" group. Unfortunately, traffic jams (we call them "trains") are just part of the experience. At the novice level, it's usually not the car that is the issue, but the driver. Some people are more hesitant to push their cars, and therefore run more slowly than others. Conversely, some people are more comfortable pushing the boundaries, so you wind up with a really mixed bag. You'll have some drivers that are having their very first track experience, and you'll have some drivers that are on the verge of "moving up" to the next level. That is just the nature of the beast. IF you get stuck behind a train, the best thing to do is pull into the hot pits, roll slowly to the starter stand, and motion for space. The hand signal for that is both arms extended forward, over the wheel, palms together, then swing them apart and back together again, like a very slow clapping motion. That should tell your starter that you're looking for space on the track. He'll hold you for a little bit, and then dump you out on track, right ahead of the oncoming pack. That will give you almost a full lap at speed before you catch back up to the pack.

Honestly, I can't believe your description of the passing! I instruct for three different groups here in the States, and all three have very simple, but firm passing rules. 1) Passing in designated areas only (main straights only). 2) Passing with a point-by only (contract passing). 3) Failure to comply will earn you a black flag. As you get into more advanced groups, the rules relax, like passing anywhere except braking to apex, with a point-by, and then finally open passing, no point required, but encouraged. Passing in the corner is just NOT safe with novice group, where you should be concentrating on running the proper line, not getting forced off-line. Without enough experience, being forced off-line in a corner could easily cause a wreck...

Speaking of... What happened that caused the spin in the first place? Did the driver lift in a corner? Too aggressive on the throttle coming off the corner? Failed to recognize and correct the spin?

I don't mean to make your experience sound like a negative one, but a lot of what you described sounds a bit sketchy. What group sponsored/sanctioned the event?

 

[Flash_of_Yellow]

I have to agree, that doesn't sound much like the HPDE's I've been a part of. Passing is a two part process and the car being passed is encouraged to lift to allow the passing car more room to get around. The idea that you were passing someone and then lifting before the corner to get back in line is mind boggling. The other guy should be lifting to ensure a safe pass.

Here is a video of my last HPDE on Thursday. I did a lot of passing, but you'll notice the "wait for point" and then the passed car getting far right and lifting a little. Youtube shredded the picture quality, but if you look closely our clubs require a full arm extension for the point (not everyone get it all the way out).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUlxitt01VY

Check around and you might find other clubs with more strict rules. The Alfa club here is a lot more lax I've heard. I haven't been to one of their events but I hear they even allow students to carry passengers on the track. Their lax rules is why I avoid them. I run with the Porsche and BMW clubs and these guys are bringing out $75K-250K shiny objects onto the track. They typically have rules a little more strict to limit the amount of damage.

 

[Vapour Trails]

Conditions today were much worse, constant light rain and temperatures around 5C (40-something-F).

The instructors/organizers must have realized they had things wrong yesterday as today we split into 4 groups rather than 3 and cars were organized, more-or-less, by power. The coordinator was emphasizing caution.

The previous days passing action was largely carried out by the AWD contingent - the STIs, EVOs. Often 2 cars would try to pass a slower car on the straight, with the 2nd car tucked right behind the 1st (2 car lengths). Several times that 2nd car barely cleared the slow car and got back on the line before the braking zone. There were times I could see three sets of tail lights braking into turn 1. I think the instructors should have been reigning this in, but it was a real hodpodge of individuals, all volunteers. I don't think all of them were on the same page of the playbook.

This HPDE differs in that is also serves as a first-stop for those wanting to persue wheel-to-wheel racing at the local track. That was evident today when we practiced going side-by-side into corners and passing in corners, all while going fairly slow. This exercise was fairly pointless to me, I have no wheel-to-wheel aspirations and the speeds involves made it no different than driving beside a car on the street, albeit on a curvy road. Moreover, the first time we tried it, it was completely disorganized. One of my instructors seemed discourged I didn't want to go faster while I traded places with an WRX in a passing exercise, but encouraged me to stay in my comfort zone. Needless to say, I wasn't all that comfortable given the conditions, power on tap and lack of experience with my tires.

Finally we practiced race starts and going through the course as a group, at low speeds. Why? Just a waste of track time IMO. We should have just done more lapping, as I only ended up with 10 fast laps on the day.

As far as the crash, corner two is called the kink. Just a slight bend you can pretty much straight line through with your foot on the floor. I think the brakes were tapped through this section and the resulting oversteer was overcompensated for, leading to a big spin.

Overall, I'd have to say I was a little disappointed with the experience. I didn't feel like I ended up with enough track time to develop any long lasting skills. The weather was a major damper too, although I do have a lot more confidence in the rain.

However, I will earn my solosprint license which will allow me to get more track time. For those of you unfamiliar, it's essentially time trialing - racing against the clock while on track with other cars; spaced out a distance so that generally they don't interfere with each other. Passing is allowed on the straight if one car is running really slowly. In some ways I think this is safer than the HDPE as only 5 cars are allowed on track at a time. All I know is I want to build my speed and confidence while not having to contend with other cars, in front or behind.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Right on, man! Sounds like you have your head screwed on straight, and have a good game plan.

I think your assessment of the crash from yesterday sounds about right. The student was driving above his comfort level, and made a bad decision, sadly one that is not uncommon in the novice ranks. Take the opportunity to learn from it, do NOT brake in a turn! When you do, the weight transfers forward, unloading the rear, and simultaneously planting the front. The result is predictable: Oversteer. When done intentionally, and in a manageable way (I sometimes lift suddenly or brake-tap to get the car to rotate in corner entry if it just doesn't want to turn), that can be a useful tool, but until you're comfortable, and I mean REALLY comfortable with your car on the track, stick to the basics! Brake in a straight line, one control input at a time, and focus on nailing the line. Remember and practice the sequence: Brake, shift, turn, gas. When you get more comfortable, you'll be able to start "playing" with things a bit, but don't rush it.

Keep going with the mentality you have demonstrated so far, and you will wind up out-driving most of the hoons out there!

 

[Vapour Trails]

Here is a video the local newspaper did on the event. Some guy won a contest to drive a 1-series BMW at the event. They said he got up to 170 km/h, heh, I got to 210 km/h.