the 2013 Track Season in a 2013 Mustang GT

[martin_nj]

This thread will be in the format of the Vorschlag build thread. Obviously not as epic but hopefully enjoyable to read.

The Intro
This Monday (Memorial Day) I will be driving up to Lime Rock Park, CT to try and set a fast lap time. I have been to LRP before and I really like the place. It seems small when you look at the layout and times but packs plenty of fun.

Previous times at LRP were in my 09 Mazdaspeed3 hatch where I lapped in the 1:05 range and in a rented SCCA Spec Racer with the Renault motor where I did 1:04s. The Renault having only 85hp or so to the Mazda's 300ish really makes you appreciate light weight single seat race cars vs heavy street tin cans. I also have a wet base line time of 1:14 in the MS3 at LRP for reference should it rain this weekend.

I'll be driving and racing this car on as little of a budget as I can spare this year and writing up my experiences here.


The Car
The car is a bone stock 2013 GT base model which has seen two tracks so far. Here's a quick recap of the 2012 season >> I took it around NJMP Lightning for a couple of laughs - on stock brake fluid, stock all season Pirellis, etc. I wasn't expecting much from the car but wanted a baseline feel for it.

Needless to say it performed horribly and is not track ready as a base model

I put some suspension on it and put some higher temp fluid in the car and took it to my first ever night event at Pocono North.

Very fun to drive at night and you go a lot slower intentionally or not hehe. I'm glad for the experience!

The mods list at this point is

• HR Race Springs
• Koni Yellow Shocks
• cheap panhard bar
• billet motor mounts
• Motul 600 brake fluid

These springs are very rough on the roads/streets during my daily commute but they feel pretty nice on track.


Learning the Hard Way
At this point I felt ready for the final event of the year, again at Pocono North but this time a two day event.

I borrowed a set of wheels and tires from one of the board members kind enough to lend me a set and I was off and added some braking capacity in the name of

• Hawk DTC70 front pads
• Stainless steel brake lines

Braking off of the NASCAR Turn 3 ... I was at the top of 5th gear before the braking point >>

The car is equipped with 3.73 final drive and I was running on a 275mm continental race slick on all four corners. We were carrying a lot of speed all day on those tires.

Unfortunately, because I have no camber, I corded the race slicks. I stupidly didn't rotate them and paid the price.

The morning of the second day we saw the cording and I ran with some summer tires, 245mm dunlop SP600's used on the 2008 Subaru STI; The car was 3 seconds slower immediately and that was before we wore down the pads.

The Factory Brakes
I wish I had pictures for you but the DTC70 pads and OEM rotors were in terrible shape. I limped the car home on a cracked driver side rotor and no front pads. Needless to say I learned the hard way mustang's (aka heavy cars) use up a lot more consumables than I was used to on the Mazda. That car was 400lbs lighter and had 120hp less!

When I got home I found the factory brake calipers were made of ceramic, which when heated too high crumbled into dusty pieces. I used my shop vac to remove what was left of the caliper pistons and started to figure out what my next steps would be.

The Fix?
I ordered a set of new front rotors, and caliper take-offs from Rousch's ebay site. They claim these items have fewer than 5 miles on them and are removed when a car is upgraded to Rousch spec. Cheap price and reliable seller works for me!

I've moved away from the DTC70s as I feel they have too much bite for my softly suspended car. On a pure racer I'm sure they will be amazing but I want a little more life out of my pads. Raybestos ST43 on order for the fronts and Hawk HP Plus will suffice in the rear.

I bought a set of used brake ducts from a member on the forum and hopefully that will keep my temps in check enough to not require a complete rebuild/replacement of my braking system.

Memorial Day @ Lime Rock Park
Having learned a bit last year about the car I feel I'm ready to keep learning more this year. I won't be able to afford R-comps or slicks mainly because of the camber issue. Keeping the car on summer tires will most likely be how things stay but only time will tell.

Some thoughts about the track. Big bend will be tough on my car because of all the weight and factory softness.

The left hander will be super fun and I will most likely be wagging the tail out 80% of the time

The back straight will be a passing zone for me with all that power but then I'm afraid of what will happen on the uphill.

This turn is quite short and steep and I'm curious if a RWD high hp car with no aero will do a wheelie on it Mostly just nervous about hitting the corner station at the top of the turn though. In the Mazda all the weight went straight to the rear leaving the front spinning even in 4th gear.

The second to last right hander before the downhill will be an experience in courage. I'll start slow but I know how fast I took that turn in the spec racers; of course a different car but I will know how much I left out there due to bravery.

And that brings us to the downhill; I'm concerned about the shock settings. I have them set to full soft in front and 1/2 turn from full soft in the rear for street use. I'll be looking to tweak them for stability in that down hill because that main straight is where I'll be picking up most of my time against the cars with stickier rubber and/or lighter chassis weights.

 

[TGR96]

Good write up! Being a huge NASCAR fan, I am so jealous that you go to do Pocono. This should be an interesting thread.

I can't believe you already cracked a rotor! Do you think the DTC70s were to blame?

Also, maybe a dumb question, but what are the red things in your lower grille in the last pics?

 

[Roadracer350]

Red things look like timing beacons. The rotors cracked because even tho their good for the street they suck on the track. When you upgraded the calipers why didnt you go with the Brembos? Better bracking for the track and not the ceramic crap. The DTC70s are the bomb at the track!

 

[martin_nj]

@TGR - the DTC70s were 100% not to blame for the cracked rotor. The issue was the slicked combined with a base model braking system causing too much heat buildup.

Roadracer is correct, the red things are timing - I had my friend co-driving with me in the intermediate session and I was in the advanced group so we both wanted times.

@roadracer - I would have liked to get the brembos but I don't want to fiddle with different sized wheels and more expensive rotors and pads.

I think with the added ducting I should be ok but time will tell =] I'm going to put this chassis through its paces before I just splurge money. Some might say that is doing the same work twice but we shall see...

Paying just 63$ for two front rotors is really attractive hehe I should check how much the larger brembo sized units cost.

 

[TheViking]

Few quick questions.

1: Where did you wind up setting the Koni's at?
2: What size rims were you running with those 275's?
3: Any overheating or concerns with the oil temp?
4: Why no CC plates?

I used to run Pocono years ago on a bike and would love to run the FUSA course again. The track was getting pretty beat up but rumor is they're been making some improvements.

Good luck at Lime Rock, sounds like a fun track.

 

[martin_nj]

Hi Viking,

Pocono is as of this year completely repaved. Or so I hear. I will be there twice this year if I have enough funds =]

Answers to questions:

1 - the koni's for poco i don't recall, and i'll be experimenting at lime rock. i'll be sure to write down what i set them to though
2 - the rims were 18x9.5 if i recall correctly? they were already mounted and borrowed as a complete set from a forum member.
3 - i don't have any concerns, but i am not monitoring it actively =\ perhaps it should be a concern but unless the hidden menu in the car can show it to me i probably won't be buying an odb reader for it
4 - i'm too poor for now =P


quick edit

i guess i'll look for this in the diagnostic menu

dEGC Display of engine temperature in Degrees C input from cylinder head temperature sensor.
49 C "C" mark
60 C Normal band start
120 C Normal band end
-40 C No SCP message for 5 seconds

any thoughts from people wiser than me?

 

[Norm Peterson]

4 - i'm too poor for now =P

Exactly what cambers does your car sit at now?

It won't take many more episodes of cording (or chunking) outside front shoulders to cover the cost of a decent set of camber plates.


Out of curiosity, what sort of lap times around NJMP's Lightning?


Norm

 

[martin_nj]

the camber is now not much. I don't have the alignment sheet here at work but I think they eeked out half a degree?

1:25.04 was my best time at lightning

You're 100% right, cording and chunking a few sets will cover camber plates, but for now i'm not worried. You see, I was given 8 tires for free (just paid the scrap fee from town) they are dunlop sp600 in 245/18 that were used on the oem STI. so they're thin, and not sticky, but they're free!

i plan to rotate in an X pattern at limerock possibly after every session. I think they will last? maybe? who knows... time will tell

 

[BTM]

where those conti's (hoosiers) the koni/ga take offs?

 

[martin_nj]

i'm not really sure BTM here is what they look like if that helps

 

[BTM]

They could be, I don't know exactly how they all look. Just curious since you said you came from BMWs, and there's a lot of BMW guys who use the Koni series (or whatever it's called now) take offs for track days.

Here is a link to one of the sellers threads on bimmerforums. 275R18 seems to be a pretty common size which should fit S197 square without blinking an eye.

If they were, was just curious what you thought of them, how long they lasted, pressures you ran, etc. Seems like a cheap way to get slick/race rubber for the casual track day goer who's not necessarily after prime rubber and lap times.

 

[Roadracer350]

If your running 18x9.5 the Brembos will fit. I understand cost is a factor but what happens if you cook the brake pistons a little to much next time and they turn to dust on the track going into a low speed corner from a straight? Just food for thought.

 

[martin_nj]

If they were, was just curious what you thought of them, how long they lasted, pressures you ran, etc.

loved them, were amazingly fast compared to the toyo R888s i had on the mazda. they lasted not long at all but that was due to my almost non existent negative camber causing the tire to cord. pressures i kept on lowering all day and ended up in the low 30s i think? this was not a cold tire but not hot either it was after a cool down and pulling in the pits. i wasn't lucky enough to have someone at pit wall to check them for me ;-)

I understand cost is a factor but what happens if you cook the brake pistons a little to much next time and they turn to dust on the track going into a low speed corner from a straight?

*gulp* if that happens then i'm in deep shit. but the plan is to keep an eye on them in between sessions now that i know the possibility exists. hopefully the less sticky tire, the brake ducting, and being "more learned" will be enough to prevent damage to the braking system

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

Last October I entered a nearly bone stock 2013 GT (above left) into a NASA TT event. I got the stock front brakes so hot (13.2" brakes, stock pads, stock fluid) that the following happened in two track sessions (less than 15 min each):

• The stock fluid boiled and I lost the brake pedal, sending me off the end of a straight at about 70 mph. I went literally 200 yards offroad before it stopped.
• Later that day, after the brakes cooled for 2 hours, I went back on track. By the end of that session the OEM front brake pads wore down to the backing plates. Metal to metal. See the picture above right of the remnants of the brake pads that disintegrated.
• This obviously ruined the front rotors.
• One other thing was broken but we didn't know it yet...

In December we replaced the rotors, pads with Carbotech, and fluid with Motul RBF600 and went back to the same track (also added AST double adjustable monotube coilovers with remote reservoirs). Same tires/wheels and everything else, just a brake pad/fluid upgrade and shock/spring change. Ran the track again and dropped my best time over 4 seconds, mostly due to the suspension. But the car had brake problems all day - the pedal was mush and I had to double-pump the pedal into each braking zone. And it was properly bled, by professionals.



We brought it back and re-bled it another 2 times. Still had a mushy pedal. Turns out we had cooked the master cylinder, too! So now we have to replace that, and while we're at it we will upgrade this car to the 14" diameter front rotors and Brembo 4-pot calipers, better pads, and brake cooling ducts.

Moral of the story is: don't take track event brake prep lightly. If you show up on stock pads and fluid, be prepared to potentially take a ride...

 

[martin_nj]

If you show up on stock pads and fluid, be prepared to potentially take a ride...

heck ya! here's a funny story about that... when i took the car totally stock to NJMP Lightning for the "baseline" run i went out in the green group knowing i wouldn't be pushing the car too hard. the green group starts with two laps under double yellow to get people acclimated (with the group I run with). after this 2nd warmup lap I get on the gas in the bowl which opens on to the front straight. knowing i'm still stock i get on the binders way way early, before the 5 marker, probably 8 or 9 if those markers existed. well the car just kept going. going and going and going hhaha

barely made it to turn one and let me tell you i was puckering up quite a bit!


i'm very interested about your master brake cyl though. thank you for sharing that with me. i've bedded in the new race pads (raybestos st43) and everything felt healthy but of course street driving isn't a good indicator.

quick edit >
forum member fishstyx is who you want to direct any wheel/tire questions to about the Conti 275's. that was his set which i borrowed


edit #2 >
@Terry, do you recall if you had your stability systems turned off?

 

[HushH]

Thanks for posting this, will be interested to see how it compares to your ms3 times. I had hoped to head up to lime rock this weekend for the Trans am races but too much to do here at the house. Best of luck.

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

edit #2 >
@Terry, do you recall if you had your stability systems turned off?

Oh yes, I don't leave my parking spot without completely killing all of the TCS system electronic nannies. It is an automatic ritual: turn the key, press on the brake, hold TCS button for 6 seconds, look for that light... then I can drive.

And to the rest of you out there: If you track or autocross your S197 5.0 Mustang with the traction control system on, even "just a little" or in "advanced" mode, it will FRY YOUR REAR BRAKES. The system is trying to keep you from spinning the rear tires or inducing any yaw so it is constantly applying rear brakes, pulling throttle, etc. And in an autocross (above) you have to have some yaw or the car isn't rotating, and you will be losing.

On track it is not as common to have wheelspin, but it is still happens in these cars. Even with aero, even with big sticky race tires. This picture above was from our last NOLA event, with the rear wing set at an aggressive angle and the car was on fresh, sticky 315mm Hoosier A6 tires. And we don't set the car up loose, it is always set to be neutral or with tick of push. In that picture I just got on the throttle a tick too early, started spinning the rear tires, and it was 30° sideways. It happens.

In either form of motorsports (autox or track) it is unusual to have enough rear traction in an S197 to keep from having some rear wheelspin. When these cars make 380 whp in bone stock form there is always going to be more power than there is available traction. If some tire slip on the back if a 5.0 Mustang is too much to handle without having to turn on traction control (which will wreck the rear brakes) then that person needs to be racing in a different car (less power, AWD, something) or not racing at all - because it will never go away completely.

Sure, I have forgotten to turn it off on accident, but the first lap on track or that autocross run was quickly aborted. This happened to me this year at TWS running in Time Trial, and it was wildly apparent even on the out lap. I was the leading the entire field on a warm up lap, trying to scrub my tires and the car was doing some FUNKY stuff... I was freaking out, looking for a wheel that had fallen off or a "brake system failure" light, then I noticed the familiar "TCS System Disabled" light was missing from my dash. Doh! And you can't kill it on track, as you have to be STOPPED for 6 seconds to disable this system. So I had to come back into the pits and by the time it was disabled the entire field had gone by and I got stuck at the back of the TT field, with the slow pokes. Maddening!

Short answer: yes, traction control was disabled.

 

[martin_nj]

So tomorrow morning I'll be leaving at 4:15am, stopping to pick up a friend and then heading to Lime Rock.

I'm packing the car now, just topped off the fuel with some 93oct. My car has 16,000 miles on it and averaging 17mpg and $3.60 per gallon I'm right around $3,400 for fuel so far. Smiles per mile I always say ;-)

I figure if I'm going to write up a list of things I'm taking to the track why not just post it here?

Helmet
Long pants and Long sleeve Shirt
Brake fluid
Engine Oil
Spare front rotors
OEM Front and rear pads
two wheels and tires from the GF's '12 Mustang GT
5 gallon fuel jug
jack
jack stands
tape+ zipties
gloves
toolbox
funnel for mustang fuel adapter thing
12v powered tire inflator thingy
tire pressure reader (i use a cheap digital one, i don't care if it is wrong, just so long as it is consistently wrong)

shhh don't tell the GF I'm borrowing her wheels

The weather looks to be quite cold but sunny, so hopefully these summer tires I'm stuck with will be "good enough"


Here are some shots of the ducting

 

[Grip]

Always take an empty bag, of some sort, for all the random shit in your car that you will forget...or random things you'll acquire.

 

[martin_nj]

Good idea Grip, random things always pop up on ya.


Here's a video of the fast lap of the day, recorded on a potato. (I set my phone to low quality in hindsight, should have had it on high qual)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubjK3jSLf94

if you hate youtube here is vimeo > https://vimeo.com/67148779

The end is the best part ;-)