2008 "tigermachine II" Bullitt Mustang build, Pics & Video on Post #518 ...

Terry if the gears are not installed correctly you will have gear whine, no matter what gear you use. I hope the 4.10's work out, you may want to check out using a solid pinion spacer, instead of a crush sleeve. As hard as your car hits, the crush sleeve may be changing position and giving you problems.

retfr8flyr said:

Terry if the gears are not installed correctly you will have gear whine, no matter what gear you use. I hope the 4.10's work out, you may want to check out using a solid pinion spacer, instead of a crush sleeve. As hard as your car hits, the crush sleeve may be changing position and giving you problems.

Click to expand...

Thanks Earl for the heads-up on that.

I hope the Ford Racing gears work out but if not I can live with the 3.73 gears.

T.

Hi, Terry,

Here's hoping that you get a quiet set up with the 4.10's! I've been lucky with my 4.10's in my Ford 8.8's (have them in my '14 GT, had them in my '07 GT, and had them in my '93 5.0L T-Bird). I've always used Ford Racing gears. The only noisy ones I've had were the 4.56's that went into my '11 GT.

With 4.10's and drag radials, I'd love to see you running 10's again (maybe even 9's with that much power on tap, assuming you can get back to the trap speeds you used to run with the Saleen blower).

Five Oh Brian said:

Hi, Terry,

Here's hoping that you get a quiet set up with the 4.10's! I've been lucky with my 4.10's in my Ford 8.8's (have them in my '14 GT, had them in my '07 GT, and had them in my '93 5.0L T-Bird). I've always used Ford Racing gears. The only noisy ones I've had were the 4.56's that went into my '11 GT.

With 4.10's and drag radials, I'd love to see you running 10's again (maybe even 9's with that much power on tap, assuming you can get back to the trap speeds you used to run with the Saleen blower).

Click to expand...

Brian,

I am now saying the following as an opinion.
I think maybe the noise from the gears are because so much of my stock suspension has been completely changed.
And with those changes it is allowing the noise to filter right up into the cabin.
Where if I had the stock suspension and the rubber components still I might not hear the whining.
I do know that the Shop Mgr. John at DBR has years and years of experience in setting up gears.
So I really don't think it's a lack of his ability, it's more than likely as I said above all the changes to my overall suspension components.

We shall see how it goes and my preference is the 4.10's for sure.

I do know that after my lengthy conversation with John there is no doubt that it will be done as perfect as possible by him.
So, if it ends up with {Excessive} whining with the Ford Racing gears like it did with the Richmond gears back to 3.73's.
And if that is what happens I'm done with trying to once again run the 4.10's.

There is no doubt on the times it would run if it had the M/T ET Drag Radials II under it once again.
It has now the H/P & Torque to get into the 9's IMO.

Terry

Terry
I did 4.10 gears last year, my mechanic is ocd and very good.
I ordered Ford racing gears as I heard they were the best and new bearings. He could not get them quiet after 10 hours and a couple visits, we ended up finding some metal in the oil and machining marks in the gears (finish was not smooth)
He explained to me that years ago a set of gears were quite expensive and with them being so cheap now the quality has gone down.
I ended up ordering a new set and he put them in, these did not have the finish issue and are dead quiet. He also explained that he had to re shim a lot and that normally you do not need to if swapping the same ratio gears further emphasising the lack of tolerances in modern gears. I've heard several other similar accounts.
With that all said, being you know your mechanic is good, if the first try with the Ford racing gears is not quiet it may be worth trying a second set before settling on 3.73s

Good luck with resolving your gear whine Terry!

I tackled my first ever gear install January 2015, also Ford Racing 4:10's. Experienced installers told me my patterns looked pretty good but I ended up with a deceleration or coasting whine as you describe. Fortunately I have been able to live with the noise so far but I will likely take the car to an expert sometime this year.

My coat pattern:



Drive pattern:

I have had FRPP 4.10's in my 06 for the last 60K miles and have never had any whine at all out of them. Just had my local ford dealer install them and never had any issues

tigerhonaker said:

Brian,

I am now saying the following as an opinion.
I think maybe the noise from the gears are because so much of my stock suspension has been completely changed.
And with those changes it is allowing the noise to filter right up into the cabin.
Where if I had the stock suspension and the rubber components still I might not hear the whining.

Click to expand...

Hi, Terry,

If you installed control arms with spherical bearings, the metal on metal action will telegraph any differential noise easily through the floorpan and into the cabin. I learned this the hard way in my '11 GT, and ended up replacing aftermarket spherical bearing items with polyurethane stuff to get rid of the noise. If you really love the 4.10's, I'd suggest you replace the spherical bearings, as well.

NickD87 said:

Terry
I did 4.10 gears last year, my mechanic is ocd and very good.
I ordered Ford racing gears as I heard they were the best and new bearings. He could not get them quiet after 10 hours and a couple visits, we ended up finding some metal in the oil and machining marks in the gears (finish was not smooth)
He explained to me that years ago a set of gears were quite expensive and with them being so cheap now the quality has gone down.
I ended up ordering a new set and he put them in, these did not have the finish issue and are dead quiet. He also explained that he had to re shim a lot and that normally you do not need to if swapping the same ratio gears further emphasizing the lack of tolerances in modern gears. I've heard several other similar accounts.
With that all said, being you know your mechanic is good, if the first try with the Ford racing gears is not quiet it may be worth trying a second set before settling on 3.73s

Click to expand...

bigmike06GT said:

I have had FRPP 4.10's in my 06 for the last 60K miles and have never had any whine at all out of them. Just had my local ford dealer install them and never had any issues

Click to expand...

Scott said:

Good luck with resolving your gear whine Terry!

I tackled my first ever gear install January 2015, also Ford Racing 4:10's. Experienced installers told me my patterns looked pretty good but I ended up with a deceleration or coasting whine as you describe. Fortunately I have been able to live with the noise so far but I will likely take the car to an expert sometime this year.

My coat pattern:



Drive pattern:

Click to expand...

Five Oh Brian said:

Hi, Terry,

If you installed control arms with spherical bearings, the metal on metal action will telegraph any differential noise easily through the floorpan and into the cabin. I learned this the hard way in my '11 GT, and ended up replacing aftermarket spherical bearing items with polyurethane stuff to get rid of the noise. If you really love the 4.10's, I'd suggest you replace the spherical bearings, as well.

Click to expand...

Guys,

I appreciate all your feedback just so you know.

I was not going to post the following as I have read that some members don't like my long, drawn-out, wordy posting.

In this situation and some of you taking the time to give me your feedback I think I owe it to you to tell the complete story on mine regarding gearing.

The story goes like this,

Back in 2011 I went to my local guy to have him take out the 3.73 gears he had installed at an earlier time.
(He was a Master Technician at a Ford Dealership and then left and started his own business)
He also had installed Ford Racing 4.10 gears before in mine.
So, he had over the years since back in 2008 when I ordered the Bullitt installed 4.10 gears as well as 3.73 gears.
I had switched back and forth between them with no problems and no real noise issues from the gearing.

But ..............

Back to 2011 when I went to him to once again take the 3.73 gears out and install the Ford Racing 4.10 gears.
And yes he had the complete kit that included everything to do the job.
It was all ordered by me from American Muscle.
The kit was actually for a GT-500 rear-end as that's what comes in the 08 Bullitt Mustangs.
Well he did his thing and guess what ???
Major gear whine right off the bat and only driving it right down the street.
So I call American Muscle and they send out another set of the Ford Racing gears, (No-Charge).
They are installed and the same thing once again major gear whine at even low speeds driving it right down the street.
So, this time I call and ask to speak directly to a Manager at American Muscle.
I explain the situation to him and he says, I'll send another set out to you at No-Charge.
Right now we are out of them but expecting a new shipment in a few days.
Sure enough he does exactly as he said he would another set of Ford Racing 4.10 gears arrive.
And a UPS pick-up slip for the gears being removed.
Guess what guys ???
I and a buddy of mine were both right there watching the complete process take place.
We saw the gear mesh with the dye and it all looked very good.
It went back together and off I went with my buddy down the street to test for gear whine.
Same exact thing as the other times.
With each set of gears you would either have excessive gear whine on deceleration or acceleration.
So I told my guy to remove the 4.10 gears and I was done !!!
I was not all pissed off at him as I knew he was good at doing this as he had done it so many times over the years with no noticeable gear whine.

I call the manager at American Muscle and we have this time a lengthy discussion so that just maybe we could get to the bottom of why this was happening when it never did in the past.
He made some calls and called me back and come to find out that Ford was No-Longer making their gears.
Motive was making them to Ford's Specifications.
So, I said I have an idea as mine now is so LOUD it is simply not going to be derivable on the street.
I was looking at my options on-line and I see you guys have complete Ford Racing GT-500 Rear-End-Assemblies.
He said yes we do and they can be ordered with either 3.55 gears or 3.73 gears.
I said let me make a call to Brenspeed Engineering & Performance in Pierceton, IN as they are a retailer of your's.
He said yes they are, we know them and they do a lot of business with us.
I said let me make a quick call to Brent White the owner of Brenspeed and I'll call you right back and we can hopefully get a workable plan together.
I called, talked to Brent, he said just have American Muscle drop-ship the complete rear-end-assembly to us.
I called the Mgr. at American Muscle back and we agreed on them drop shipping a complete rear end assembly to Brenspeed for my Bullitt.

Well guys I took the Bullitt to Brenspeed back in 2011 and George Dockery made the switch.

So the above is what took place back in 2011 and I have been {Paranoid} to even think about changing the 3.73 gears to the 4.10's again.
But, DBR Performance right here where I live does some extremely high-end vehicles and have done several things for me on mine.
As well as some of my local buddies using DBR.
I decided to have a talk, lengthy talk actually with David the owner of DBR.
I explained the exact same story I just have said above.
He felt like John his shop Mgr had so much experience setting up rear-ends it would not be an issue.
John worked for another company prior to DBR and he did rear-end gear changes weekly.
So he has years and years of experience in doing this sort of thing.
John felt like that going with Richmond Gears was a better choice as in his opinion they had the very-best-tolerances.
Well, guess what, noise at 60 plus MPH if you were not on the gas and it was in between accelerating or off the gas on a grade in decelerating.
Totally unacceptable ............
So to continue David made some calls as well as John at DBR before they went with the Richmond Gears.
They found out that if you could find a set of Ford Racing Gears with an A on the suffix they were produced by Ford.
If there was an M in the suffix they were produced by Motive to Ford's specifications.
So that's another reason why John went with the Richmond gears the 1st time.
They could not find a set of the Ford Racing gears with the A suffix when they had the person actually look at the boxes the gears were in.

If any of you have taken the time to read all of what I have said above and then below you will more understand what's going on I think.

I'll do a complete informative post once I get the call from DBR Performance that mine is ready to be picked up.
Truthfully, I really doubt that the Ford Racing 4.10 gears are going to be quiet.
(I'm not saying they have to be Perfectly Quiet but livable without Excessive Whine)
I think all the suspension changes on mine is simply allowing way to much feed back from the rear-end to up in the cabin.
If I had the stock rubber mounts and not all the polyurethane bushings and did not have the BMR rear Xtreme Anti-roll Bar Kit, Rear, Hollow 35mm
That is welded to the rear axles so transfers all noise right to the cabin.







The New GT-500 complete Rear-End-Assembly below:











So I'm thinking there is no-longer anything stock remaining under mine suspension wise to help isolate the rear-end noise.

Terry

Did my Test Drive this morning at DBR Performance ...

Guys,

Well I got the call from John at DBR Performance yesterday afternoon.
He said I want you to come drive your Mustang in the morning and see what you think.
So off I went this morning to DBR Performance to meet up with John and do the driving thing.
He jumped in the passenger seat and off we went.
I drove it at different speeds and up to like 80 MPH.
I also set the cruise control at 60 MPH and it was so Factory Quiet I'm in luv again with the 4.10's.
The new Ford Racing 4.10 gears are A-OK people.
I am happy that once gain after 5 plus years I have the 4.10 gears back under the Mustang.

There is now one thing I do know and that is my suspension was not why there was gear whine.
The suspension has not been touched at all and these new Ford Racing Gears are virtually for all practical purposes silent.
And that's before John applies the Dynamat treatment.
In-fact these gears he just installed are actually quieter than the GT-500 3.73 gears that came in the complete assembly I had installed back in 2011 at Brenspeed.

Also John went over in great detail what he was going to do in regards to the Dynamat install.
He took me inside and actually opened up the different boxes and showed me the different types of Dynamat.

Based on how quiet the rear-end gears are now there will more than likely be no real noise coming through to the cabin/interior after the Dynamat is installed.
And the A/C should really cool down the interior on the soon to be Super Hot Days here.

I did take some pictures this time that I can share with everyone.

I'll post them below:

I just pulled in DBR Performance in Cathy's MCS.




Walked inside and there was the young lady Olivia the receptionist.




If you look close there sits the Bullitt waiting for us to do the test drive.




There's John waiting to get in for the test drive.




We just got back to the shop after me doing the driving.







John is getting ready to open the Dynamat boxes to show me the different types of product.

As you will see in the below pictures the Dynamat comes in several different types according to where it is going in the car.



















Look inside the box at the thickness of this Dynamat.




These next pictures I took just to show some of you what else is going on at DBR Performance.













Terry

Terry great that it worked out for you!

Scott said:

Terry great that it worked out for you!

Click to expand...

Scott,

Yes the test drive was totally awesome for sure.
I think this is the only time that any of the different gears I have had in the Bullitt were this quiet.
I doubt that I will ever change back to the 3.73's again.
Now that I don't hear gear whine I'm going to Stop while I'm ahead.

Glad you got that sorted. How does it feel accelerating?

ZmanM3 said:

Glad you got that sorted. How does it feel accelerating?

Click to expand...

Matt,

Being honest about it I did not really drive it all that hard.
Nor did we go all that far miles wise in the test drive.
They wanted to just make sure I was totally satisfied with the noise level of the 4.10's.
They were doing the heat conditioning to the new gears.
John drove it the day before the same exact route and then let it sit overnight before I came the next morning to drive it.
Same thing for me driving it was to also heat treat the gears, plus checking it for gear whine which thank goodness it is non existent.

The best I can tell you is, it is Quick, real freaking Quick with the 4.10's.
I ran the Ford Racing 4.10 gears in it for years.
Then I decided since at the time I was putting a lot of road miles on it going to other states to car stuff to go with 3.73's.
Nothing at all wrong with running the 3.73 gears but as far as mine and how it behaves the 4.10's buddy are the Shit.

It's going to be a really fun car to drive again once I get it back this time.

I'm thinking the 4.10's will stay in place as long as I own the Bullitt.

One has to know when to STOP & leave well enough Alone IMO.

T.

I just switched from 4:10 to 3:73 because of mostly driving highway. I really didn't notic much difference until I really got on it.

ZmanM3 said:

I just switched from 4:10 to 3:73 because of mostly driving highway. I really didn't notic much difference until I really got on it.

Click to expand...

I can definitely tell you as soon as I got in mine and got on the throttle some it was obvious I had 4.10's under it.

It's a big difference in mine performance wise.

T.

DBR Performance has started on the complete Dynamat process ...

Hello guys,

Well I got an E-Mail from David at DBR Performance this afternoon on my Bullitt.

This is what David actually had to say to me below.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
(Your gonna love what we are doing.
We have done it to several cars before and the outcome is always worth it !!)[/FONT]

They have already started doing the interior with the Dynamat.

What I see in the picture tells me those guys are on top of their game plan.

No need for more words I'll just post the picture I was sent for you that are interested.

Guys with the S-197 Mustangs might very well want to look into having this done to your's.

I think I will have many more pictures showing what they do and if so I'll post them.

Hope it gives you what you want. That's a lot of weight you're adding.

retfr8flyr said:

Hope it gives you what you want. That's a lot of weight you're adding.

Click to expand...

Hello Earl,

Below is my thinking on adding the Dynamat.

Well buddy I have wanted to have this done in mine for several years now.
I just did not know anyone that would do it right.
And, I also did not know any company I would trust to disassemble the complete interior and put it back like it was never apart.
After having DBR Performance do other things on mine it was obvious they actually do care about the customer's vehicle.
So I thought now that John has gotten those new Ford Racing gears installed and they are behaving as one would hope.
It was the right time to ask if they would strip the complete interior, trunk etc. and do the Dynamat ???
John (Shop Foreman) jumped right in and ordered the appropriate Dynamat to do the job.
He finished doing the 4.10's and Heat-Cycling them to break them in the proper way.
After that he had already ordered the Dynamat so could jump right in on doing it.

Oh and in my case I'm not the least bit concerned over the extra weigh from adding the Dynamat.
I use to weigh 220 Lbs. and now I weigh like 165 Lbs.
That's 55 Lbs less with my reduction in my own weight.
I really doubt that the Dynamat is going to be any Real-World-Hindrance to Performance.

I don't know how many pictures they will take of the Dynamat install but whatever they send me I'll post.

What I'm wanting with my Bullitt Mustang is the following.
I want it to be much more civil (Quiet) on the inside where I am.
Examples would be a heck of a lot less road noise, tire noise, exhaust noise etc. coming into the cabin.
I don't expect it all of a sudden to be like a Mercedes, Audi etc. but simply a great improvement over what it was.

I want a Bullitt that is fast, easy to drive in traffic (Auto-Tranny), cold A/C, Cruise that works as it should, and also to be able to listen to my XM Satellite Radio with normal volume.

I think I'm going to end up with exactly what I want after this is done.

Heck, I'm now as of June a 71 year old fellow.
So, IMO for me to keep the Bullitt even more years and to really be satisfied with it.
It is going to have to be more civilized in regards to interior NOISE !!!

I have considered in the last few years of selling it.
I have not made that public knowledge but it's true.
Not because there's anything wrong with it.
Simply more that as the years have rolled by it has become more of a Race-Car in regards to creature comfort.
So, I'm hoping and thinking after I get the call to come get it I'm going to have exactly what I want with it.

So, that I can get in it and take trips once again without all the "LOUDNESS" !!!

We shall see,
Terry

I've been toying with the idea of putting dynomat in mine for a while now. Interested in your results.