Can 450+ rwhp be done N/A on a 4.6L 3V????

[Eric Brooks]

VP Street Blaze 103 or C-16

Big difference between those two.

ok, so say its doable... WTF is the point?

the cost and lack of street use makes it worthless IMHO. Blower @ 10-12 psi 450-500 whp, simple, easy and street/strip friendly....

K.I.S.S.

My thoughts exactly. I am sure it can be done, but at what cost?

I have my doubts as to whether it can be done with just compression and bolt on's.

 

[*JZ*]

ok, so say its doable... WTF is the point?

the cost and lack of street use makes it worthless IMHO. Blower @ 10-12 psi 450-500 whp, simple, easy and street/strip friendly....

K.I.S.S.

The point is to be the first 10 second N/A 4.6L 3V

 

[*JZ*]

Big difference between those two.

I know there is a big difference between the two... The point of that statement was... I'm not sure which one we're going to run.

 

[Fast64ranchero]

I think you can get close, it'll take a "special" solid roller cam that will work with the stock intake, and a compression ratio that is above the limits of pump gas, but why use the stock intake? at that power level you'll be leaving 30 or so hp on the table??? and to answer the question of why would you, because it would be bad ass that's why, and not everyone can do it!!!! anyone can make that number with a blower or N2O,

 

[stkjock]

The point is to be the first 10 second N/A 4.6L 3V

ahh, I see, that and $2.25 will get you on a NYC Subway.

now build a N/A car that will run 10s and give you great street manners, full interior and accessories.... then IMHO you'll have something to brag about.

 

[Vapour Trails]

ok, so say its doable... WTF is the point?

the cost and lack of street use makes it worthless IMHO. Blower @ 10-12 psi 450-500 whp, simple, easy and street/strip friendly....

K.I.S.S.

Exactly

Sometimes I think people on here are trying to find the most expensive and difficult way to achieve something.

The great thing about a boosted Mustang is that you can have tons of power, and still have street manners, and A/C, and comfortable seats, and air bags, and drive 8 hours without hating it.

 

[05yellowgt]

You are going to need one heck of a custom piston to get about 10.5:1 compression with a stock stock going 20 over. If you were building a BB stroker it would be a bit easier, but either route is going to take some expensive pistons to bump it up to 13-14:1

 

[Mike Rousch]

ahh, I see, that and $2.25 will get you on a NYC Subway.

now build a N/A car that will run 10s and give you great street manners, full interior and accessories.... then IMHO you'll have something to brag about.

 

[marcspaz]

Discuss.....

NO STROKER
STOCK INTAKE MANIFOLD
4.6L 3V
.020 over
heads
cams
bolt-on's
longtubes
etc....

Compression obviously is a must...

I hate to sound like an ass, but if you change the bore, even just .020 over, it's no longer "stock displament".

An option is camming the car to increase the dynamic pressure, getting as close as possible to the static CR. On a stock 3 valve, the static CR is 9.7:1, but the stock cams really yeild a dynamic CR (effective CR based on volume efficiency) of around 8.5 and some of the aftermarket street/strip cams get us closer to 9.1.

If you get a custom ground cam that will allow the valve to close at dead bottom, you could achive full utilization of the volume and the 9.7 CR which would increase your cylinder pressure at ignition enough to possibly make a nice bump in power.

____________________________

With push rod motors, we used to shave heads for a slight bump in compression. With the right cam, that would be the mod to make.

We have chain driven over-head cams, which means we don't have to mod rod length, but we may have to go to a larger valve and do one hell of a port job to make up for the loss in valve clearance.

You would need to spec the spark plug clearance too. Spacers for the intake shouldn't be a problem to make. Shaving the timing cover and making new bolt holes would be pretty straight forward too.

The biggest PITA I see would be the custom ground cam, which is a must for shaved heads.

keeping it streetable and the stock intake manifold on a mustang dyno.... no

That's what people said about 400 RWHP, but that was debunked.

116 octane on said motor above and you're going to lose hp.

10.5 or even 11:1 compression doesn't require much octane on an n/a motor. You could probably run that on 91, or atleast with a gallon or two of 100 mixed in. I'd think it'll take somewhere north of 13:1 or 14:1 compression to reach the 450 rwh mark with the components listed.

As for the question, I'd say it's possible, but probably not real street friendly.

I spent some major time looking into race fuel for my NA build. All of the major fuel companies have post on their websites that they don't recommend any race fuels for an NA engine until 12.5:1 because the pressure at ignition will be too low to allow full burn and the burn time would be too slow.

I tried 103 anyway. I was able to lean it our a bit more and bump the timing and make some nice power, but after about 15 passes I had to replace my plugs and O2 sensors and clean all the residue from the unburnt fuel out of my cats.

Not worth it while NA.

here's what i was looking for....what kind of hp is this guy making?

http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26061

Mike was banging down killer ET's because his 60' was so low.

He was sportting a 302 also...

ok, so say its doable... WTF is the point?

the cost and lack of street use makes it worthless IMHO. Blower @ 10-12 psi 450-500 whp, simple, easy and street/strip friendly....

K.I.S.S.

Take it from a high HP NA car owner... this is good advice.

What I have spent is WAY more than if I went FI.

 

[GrnBullitt08]

10.5:1or 11:1 compression, max ported heads, bigger valves, full acessory delete, stage 3 or better cams, pullies, electric water pump, full 3" exhaust, .020 overbore, on 116 octane. if its not 450 its getting damn close.

+1 on what he said. But still not sure. If you could upgrade the fuel system and the intake manifold I think its very managable.

 

[chad05gt]

yes, of course... lets see cold motor, ac, some 2.35 gears spinning 29 in tires, and a typo by the monkey operating the dynojet... sure, maybe more ...



Will it outrun all the 300-350hp Mustang dyno DRIVEN/RACED cars... hmmm..

 

[Matt D]

Don't hate on dyno jetted car's chad we race our shit too xD

 

[Matt D]

I beleive with the stock intake any na combo is limited because it cannot scream in the higher rpms and make power where it should

 

[chad05gt]

I beleive with the stock intake any na combo is limited because it cannot scream in the higher rpms and make power where it should

...and then regular 7K+ runs on stock crank...

This is the reason most 'built' combos go the way they do... n/a or not, you HAVE to build to run the safe rpm... and, when you Have to build anyway, why not....


Not hating on dyno jet, Matt, just hatn on the 'dyno' goal period

 

[470 GT/CS]

Hurricane Performance got 440rwhp w/ a big bore stock stroke 302 but I don't think the best cam(while still streetable) and heads together will be able to top that with the stock bore/stroke. JMO....

 

[Grabber]

I say with a ported aftermarket intake manifold, ported heads, a very aggressive custom grind cam with very high lift, redline of at least 7300-7500, custom 3 inch full exhaust, a hell of a tune, delete plates, pulley's, etc. you might hit a bit over 400 RWHP.

Now, changing the displacement, sure, you can hit 450 with the right setup.

As Dave said, get a street worthy car that runs 10's like that, full interior, accessories, etc. and you have something to brag about. A race car is nothing to brag about, no matter how big of a number you get out of it.

 

[GrnBullitt08]

So price isnt an issue here. You'll spend double the money to build a 450rwhp NA like stkjock stated before....

Suspension and drivetrain work will be vital as well to transfer that power to the pavement to achieve those 10s. Also is there gonna be some weight reduction involved with the build...AC delete, upgraded k-member, aluminum driveshaft etc.....

 

[US-1]

Discuss.....

NO STROKER........ok....big bore
STOCK INTAKE MANIFOLD....yeah, fuck that. Throw it into the street and put a C&L on it.
4.6L 3V
.020 over........screw that. Big bore.
heads.......duh.
cams........duh.
bolt-on's
longtubes.....and you better get these right.
etc....

Compression obviously is a must...

No shit, Buckwheat. With the exception of the intake manifold this can be done.

As far as why people build upper end N/A engines.....because they want to see how far they can engineer and push the package. The 450 N/A mark hasn't been eclipsed yet. Why not give it a shot. Or...this could be a lead in experiment to put a 3V engine into one of the N/A classes at NMRA/NMCA or the Ram series. There is a certain satisfaction in building serious N/A power. The engineering, technology, and parts are where that satisfaction comes from. You can't just swap pullies or turn the knob on the boost controller.

 

[5.0Shocker]

Is an N/A Alcohol or Meth Inj kit allowed?

 

[chad05gt]

ok, so say its doable... WTF is the point?

the cost and lack of street use makes it worthless IMHO. Blower @ 10-12 psi 450-500 whp, simple, easy and street/strip friendly....

K.I.S.S.

TRUTH... take that from someone that did the n/a thing 'till it was a point of the next step(s) being build, cams, and wt reduction that would have made it miserable, at best, on the street... for the same $ as going FI. 10's will be done for some coin and complete disreguard for creature comforts.