Is my Clutch Toast???

[stkjock]

You can't tell me the power from a pulley swap is too much for the stock clutch. My god we'd have post after post about clutch replacements.

you're not wrong. However, if you mod, then the risk is that a warranty claim will be disallowed. IMHO a lot has to do with the dealer and how they handle it. I had my tranny rebuilt under warranty without question when I had a blower on the car. You play sometimes you have to pay.

you certainly can appeal the decision and try to take them to court under the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act, but your car will be down while that process plays out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson–Moss_Warranty_Act

 

[MrClean]

I empathize with your feelings on the subject. However, there are a few differences that may account for the lack of posts on the subject: apparently the stock clutch in our cars is different from the 07-09, and 2010s are still relatively new.
As far as the waranty, Stokjock is right, they actually have to prove that the mod caused the failure, but if you mod you run the risk of getting into that sort of dispute with the daler. Since you've already dropped some coin on mods, I'd go the extra length of putting a McLeod in there and be done with it.

 

[bpmurr]

I empathize with your feelings on the subject. However, there are a few differences that may account for the lack of posts on the subject: apparently the stock clutch in our cars is different from the 07-09, and 2010s are still relatively new.
As far as the waranty, Stokjock is right, they actually have to prove that the mod caused the failure, but if you mod you run the risk of getting into that sort of dispute with the daler. Since you've already dropped some coin on mods, I'd go the extra length of putting a McLeod in there and be done with it.

If money wasn't an issue I'd have a McLeod already. I love that just because someone has a GT500 everyone thinks they are loaded.

 

[MrClean]

If money wasn't an issue I'd have a McLeod already. I love that just because someone has a GT500 everyone thinks they are loaded.

I'm in the same boat dude, I myself aren't "loaded"....saving up the pennies/requesting PayPal gift certificates for birthdays, etc for the pulley/tune/HE/Clutch upgrade. In fact the clutch might come first...the stocker is grabby as hell and makes a smooth start somewhat difficult to execute. I apologize if it seems I was making assumptions as to the $$ you have available for the mods. One thing I've learned while modding my 07 GT, and also with this car, doing something as simple as LCAs, is that no mod comes without a trade-off and potentially a downside. On the GT500, one set of LCA's (Metco) had poly bushings so hard that you could literally hear the axles and bearing rotate as the car would start moving. Swapped to BMRs, and they squeaked like hell, regardless of how much I lubed them...back to stock now...$300 in parts and $300 in labor later.


The trade-offs (plural) on the pulley upgrade are, in my view:

• The potential to needing to upgrade and spend on a better clutch to handle the power from the upgrade
• Having to replace the plugs six times more often (stock interval is 60k miles, with the upgrade it's ~10k miles)
• Potentially having to replace the SC oil sooner than the recommended 50k miles, simply because your turning the SC faster regardless of boost, and therefore more RPM for the same given hours or miles of operation
• The potential for needing a higher capacity HE due to heat soak and higher boost (and therefore higher IATs)
• The potential that a powertrain warranty issue will not be honoured by Ford as a result of the mod.

By the way, I had some minor warranty issues with my car when first received, and after one trip to the dealer after which they said they could not duplicate the rattles i was hearing in the clutch pedal and along the window sill, I wrote a strong letter to the dealership, pointed out that I had spent $150k there in the past 3 years, and that my extended family also bought their vehicles there, and that at the price range for the GT500 ($50k) I had alternatives ($5k from an M3, for example). They called me back and it was all taken care of...sometimes you have to remind them of why they exist, and in your case I would tell them the reasons you bought this car a year ahead of your planned purchase date.

 

[bpmurr]

I talked to the service manager again today. He said that he talked to two people at the plant. They both said from the pictures they can't see anything wrong with the clutch other then it being burnt up. In fact they don't even want the unit back now for review. The service manager is going to update his log and then I have a contact at Ford to speak with tomorrow. Hopefully Ford Corporate can work with me.

 

[MrClean]

I talked to the service manager again today. He said that he talked to two people at the plant. They both said from the pictures they can't see anything wrong with the clutch other then it being burnt up. In fact they don't even want the unit back now for review. The service manager is going to update his log and then I have a contact at Ford to speak with tomorrow. Hopefully Ford Corporate can work with me.

Man, I LOVE your ride's color combo...would be my second choice.

Please keep us updated...I'm very interested in whether they consider the stock clutch robust enough to handle the 550 RWHP you're putting down.

Since the $$ are scarce, I'd rather spend the $1k on the pulley/tensioner/plugs/xCal3/dynotime than a clutch if at all possible...and wait a little longer to do the clutch. How long did you have the pulley on before you noticed the clutch slipping?

 

[bpmurr]

Man, I LOVE your ride's color combo...would be my second choice.

Please keep us updated...I'm very interested in whether they consider the stock clutch robust enough to handle the 550 RWHP you're putting down.

Since the $$ are scarce, I'd rather spend the $1k on the pulley/tensioner/plugs/xCal3/dynotime than a clutch if at all possible...and wait a little longer to do the clutch. How long did you have the pulley on before you noticed the clutch slipping?

Now that I think about it was about 1,500 miles. I had 7k on the car when I put the pulley on. Things that I thought were just traction were really the clutch.

I was told from a unofficial Ford source it's good for about 800RWHP in stock form. I know a guy with a 2010 and 7k pushing about 750RWHP with no issues.

 

[MrClean]

Now that I think about it was about 1,500 miles. I had 7k on the car when I put the pulley on. Things that I thought were just traction were really the clutch.

I was told from a unofficial Ford source it's good for about 800RWHP in stock form. I know a guy with a 2010 and 7k pushing about 750RWHP with no issues.

Dude, as you were typing your response, I ws on the phone with Richard at Strictly and asked him if I should be ok with the pulley upgrade using the stock clutch and he said I would. It probably won't make as bid of a difference until it gets cool again...he said that in this Texas heat (90º and 90% humidity), with the pulley upgrade I can only expect ~500 rwhp...so only doing about 410 rwhp in stock form.

What was the ambient temp when your car was tuned/dynoed, and what numbers did it put down? I'm sure your dual fan HE helped in this regard..

Anyway, wish you the best of luck with the warranty repair. I have a vested interest since I'll be doing the same pulley upgrade and would like to have a positive precedent in terms of Ford replacing the clutch even with the upgrade.

 

[bpmurr]

MrClean you might find this interesting. It comes from the FRPP Warranty Guide. It's amazing how the clutch can hold more power then I'm putting down if Ford installs a supercharger upgrade!

"Super Packs (2005-2009 MY: M-6066-M463V, M-6066-M463P, M-6066-M463V7, M-6066-
M463P7, M-6066-M463V8, M-6066-M463P8, M-6066-SGT; 2010 MY: M-6066-MGT400C, M-
6066-MGT400PC, M-6066-MSVTA) are warranted for factory-supplied material or
workmanship beginning upon dealer installation and registration of the Ford Racing Super
Pack with Ford Racing and ends at either 12 months/12,000 miles (whichever occurs first).
Installation must occur prior to the vehicle reaching either 36 months/36,000 miles (whichever
occurs first) from the beginning of the manufacturer's New Vehicle Limited Warranty. This
Limited Warranty replaces the existing manufacture's New Vehicle Limited Warranty for
engine, driveline and suspension parts when a concern is triggered by a warranted Ford
Racing Super Pack. All engine, driveline and suspension warranty issues not related to
installation of Ford Racing Super Pack remain subject to existing manufacturer's New Vehicle
Limited Warranty.
• 400 HP and 475 HP Super Packs are only warranted when dealer installed on
Mustang GT 4.6L engines.
• 6005HP and 650 HP Super Packs are only warranted when dealer installed on
Shelby GT500 5.4L engines."

 

[MrClean]

MrClean you might find this interesting. It comes from the FRPP Warranty Guide. It's amazing how the clutch can hold more power then I'm putting down if Ford installs a supercharger upgrade!

"Super Packs (2005-2009 MY: M-6066-M463V, M-6066-M463P, M-6066-M463V7, M-6066-
M463P7, M-6066-M463V8, M-6066-M463P8, M-6066-SGT; 2010 MY: M-6066-MGT400C, M-
6066-MGT400PC, M-6066-MSVTA) are warranted for factory-supplied material or
workmanship beginning upon dealer installation and registration of the Ford Racing Super
Pack with Ford Racing and ends at either 12 months/12,000 miles (whichever occurs first).
Installation must occur prior to the vehicle reaching either 36 months/36,000 miles (whichever
occurs first) from the beginning of the manufacturer's New Vehicle Limited Warranty. This
Limited Warranty replaces the existing manufacture's New Vehicle Limited Warranty for
engine, driveline and suspension parts when a concern is triggered by a warranted Ford
Racing Super Pack. All engine, driveline and suspension warranty issues not related to
installation of Ford Racing Super Pack remain subject to existing manufacturer's New Vehicle
Limited Warranty.
• 400 HP and 475 HP Super Packs are only warranted when dealer installed on
Mustang GT 4.6L engines.
• 6005HP and 650 HP Super Packs are only warranted when dealer installed on
Shelby GT500 5.4L engines."

No shit!! Must be the special tools they use, and of course the extra dose of tender-loving-care the Ford techs use when installing the SC upgrade. Thanks, this makes me feel way more comfortable.....and you should definitely use it to makes things go your way.

BTW, one of your early questions was never adequately answered, and that is whether or not clutches are warranted; back when I was on the dark-side and owned a '99 Vette, they would cover "wear-items" like brake rotors, clutches and such up to 10,000 miles. On the '07 GT, when I asked the question the response I got was 12,000 miles.

Given what you discovered and noted above, I'd say you're well equipped to make Ford pony up for this. I would definitely tell them how you feel about them not taking Govt bailout $$ and how that influenced your purchase decision, and also it wouldn't hurt to mention that you're sharing your experience with thousands of other S197 Mustang owners on this forum.

Sorry you have to go through this. I take back what I saidseveral posts ago; fight to have them replace the stocker, and don't spend the extra coin on the McLeod clutch/flywheel (although I am tempted by the physics and effects on acceleration of the lower rotational mass flywheel).

Where are you located?

 

[bpmurr]

No shit!! Must be the special tools they use, and of course the extra dose of tender-loving-care the Ford techs use when installing the SC upgrade. Thanks, this makes me feel way more comfortable.....and you should definitely use it to makes things go your way.

BTW, one of your early questions was never adequately answered, and that is whether or not clutches are warranted; back when I was on the dark-side and owned a '99 Vette, they would cover "wear-items" like brake rotors, clutches and such up to 10,000 miles. On the '07 GT, when I asked the question the response I got was 12,000 miles.

Given what you discovered and noted above, I'd say you're well equipped to make Ford pony up for this. I would definitely tell them how you feel about them not taking Govt bailout $$ and how that influenced your purchase decision, and also it wouldn't hurt to mention that you're sharing your experience with thousands of other S197 Mustang owners on this forum.

Sorry you have to go through this. I take back what I saidseveral posts ago; fight to have them replace the stocker, and don't spend the extra coin on the McLeod clutch/flywheel (although I am tempted by the physics and effects on acceleration of the lower rotational mass flywheel).

Where are you located?

Thanks! I'm about a 1/2 hr. north west of Baltimore, MD.

 

[trill gear head]

Dude, I think what other people have tried to tell you is that your clutch was never properly broken in and because of that fact, you have a burnt clutch after only 10k miles.

 

[bpmurr]

Dude, I think what other people have tried to tell you is that your clutch was never properly broken in and because of that fact, you have a burnt clutch after only 10k miles.

I've never had to "break in" a clutch before. I'm not saying it isn't a bad thing to do. I didn't get any indication from Ford upon the sale of my vehicle it needed to be done. I babied the car until 1500 miles anyways. It's not like I was out dumping the clutch under 500 miles. The clutch should have been fine.

 

[fdjizm]

You do indeed have to break in a clutch, on any manual car.
Slipping a non-broken in clutch is worse than dumping it.

 

[bpmurr]

You do indeed have to break in a clutch, on any manual car.
Slipping a non-broken in clutch is worse than dumping it.

From what I've read about the break in period. It's just driving the car normally. Which was done during that period. It was mixed driving and not just all expressway. No high RPM dumps, no power shifting. Just normal driving.

What I'm saying to the "break-in" folks is that I did normal driving during that period. Which is what it says to do on every site when I google clutch break-in. It wasn't like I went to the track day one. lol I've been driving clutches for years and never had an issue before with the way I drive because I take it easy on the car for the first 1500 miles.

 

[fdjizm]

I am being honest here and there is only a handful of ways for that clutch to get like that, one is abuse, two is something not putting the proper pressure on the clutch when released which is looking like what happend.

but for future reference you definitely do have to break in a clutch.
Not saying you didn't here I have no idea just putting that out there.

 

[MrClean]

I am being honest here and there is only a handful of ways for that clutch to get like that, one is abuse, two is something not putting the proper pressure on the clutch when released which is looking like what happend.

but for future reference you definitely do have to break in a clutch.
Not saying you didn't here I have no idea just putting that out there.

This is an interesting subject, not just for the clutch break-in, but for the motor break-in as well. My break-in consisted of normal driving the first 60 miles, then several WOT runs from ~2000 rpm to redline in 3rd gear and in 4th gear (that's how i got my first ticket in this car) on the 3rd day of ownership. So from the start I did put some load on the clucth, but it was "fully clamped" load, I didn't dump the clutch until like 3300 miles, and not from high RPM...only from about 1800-2000...just a chirp-n-go, followed by another chirp-ngo in the 1-2 shift, and yet another in the 2-3 shift.

 

[blacknlte]

Well it does suck that they wont replace it, but the car is not as it was when you bought it. If you read the warranty book it say any modification will void your warranty. With the pulley change, that falls under the modification.

Rule number one on getting warranty work done on a hotrod, if you bought it factory stock give it back factory stock!

 

[bpmurr]

Well it does suck that they wont replace it, but the car is not as it was when you bought it. If you read the warranty book it say any modification will void your warranty. With the pulley change, that falls under the modification.

Rule number one on getting warranty work done on a hotrod, if you bought it factory stock give it back factory stock!

Under the Magnuson-Moss warrany Act they have to prove the mod caused the problem. If not the manufacture could just go denying the warranty for anything.

There reason for denying the claim was the additional power from the pulley caused the premature wear. However, they are more then happy to warranty a super charger upgrade that puts down even more power for at least 12 months or 12,000 miles. Either the clutch can handle more then stock power levels or it can't. It's clear that it can, so the claim the pulley caused the problem is false.

 

[joedls]

However, they are more then happy to warranty a super charger upgrade that puts down even more power for at least 12 months or 12,000 miles. Either the clutch can handle more then stock power levels or it can't. It's clear that it can, so the claim the pulley caused the problem is false.

Not necessarily true. They could be pricing the supercharger upgrade to include the risk they are taking on with the warranty. So you are paying for that. You didn't pay for it with the pulley upgrade.