1Free197's build/question thread

1Free197

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Which 18X10's did you order and why? I want to get a set also, but still haven't settled on any just yet.

I ordered a set off of AM but these I could care less about(appearance wise) because they are dedicated track wheels. I am running 18x9 18x10 staggered deep dish right now for my street setup and I love the look.... I mean... SERIOUSLY!!

20150703_151517_zpsjoc0ceyt.jpg


:rainbowtoss:

Lol, on the recommendation of nearly everyone here look into the F14's if you are looking for track wheels like I was.
 
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1Free197

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20150812_225740_zpsobh8dvkj.jpg


For those more interested in photos, thanks again UMI for making an amazing product.
 
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CobraRed

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They most certainly are!

I took them to the stock length and then bolted them up, not much science about it yet, but I am researching what I can do with them :fishing:

If you want to get picky, try bolting one side at stock length and making sure the sway is parallel to the ground. Lower the car on the ground, of have all 4 corners on ramps.
Then on the other side see if the endlink stud will easily slide in and out of the adjustment hole you want. This ensure's there isn't any binding or preload on the sway and allows it to work only when you want it to be.

Bonus points for having weight in the driver's seat akin to your own.
 

frank s

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[...]

Bonus points for having weight in the driver's seat akin to your own.

The only thing around here that weighed akin to me was me.

I set up a tool box and a lump of clay, sat in the driver seat, got a good measurement below that. Shimmed the tool box to the measured height, jacked up the other side until the measurement was reached, battened everything down and made the adjustment on the jacked side.

I think it was a pretty close approximation; in any event, there is the same kind of intangible improvement in how quickly the bar starts its influence as there is in clocking your spark plugs relative to the intake charge. You know it works, but you'll likely not be able to measure the effects.
 

1Free197

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The only thing around here that weighed akin to me was me.

I set up a tool box and a lump of clay, sat in the driver seat, got a good measurement below that. Shimmed the tool box to the measured height, jacked up the other side until the measurement was reached, battened everything down and made the adjustment on the jacked side.

I think it was a pretty close approximation; in any event, there is the same kind of intangible improvement in how quickly the bar starts its influence as there is in clocking your spark plugs relative to the intake charge. You know it works, but you'll likely not be able to measure the effects.

That is what I was looking at. It might be a fun project one of these days if I can find a friend to help me with it. I am just happy to be driving her again without having to hear that horrendous clank every corner from dead end links and tie rods...
 

claudermilk

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They most certainly are!

I took them to the stock length and then bolted them up, not much science about it yet, but I am researching what I can do with them :fishing:
Excellent! I thought as much, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

That is what I was looking at. It might be a fun project one of these days if I can find a friend to help me with it. I am just happy to be driving her again without having to hear that horrendous clank every corner from dead end links and tie rods...
Were the end links visibly worn? I'm getting a clank from the front over speed bumps, but cannot see anything loose & the end links look ok on a visual inspection (not noticeably loose when wiggling by hand & the boots are good).
 

1Free197

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Excellent! I thought as much, but it doesn't hurt to ask.


Were the end links visibly worn? I'm getting a clank from the front over speed bumps, but cannot see anything loose & the end links look ok on a visual inspection (not noticeably loose when wiggling by hand & the boots are good).

My whole inspection process went as follows:

After replacing my tie-rod ends I still noticed a clunk mainly from the front driver side but it sounded like the whole front at times...

1.) Checked both front struts for leaks and performed a bounce test listening for noise from them.
2.) When I replaced the outer tie rods I checked the inners and they were in good shape (no unnecessary free play) so I lifted both ends of the car and checked the wheel for any free play in the tire to check the wheel hubs. No play... tight as a tigah
3.) Visually inspected my bushings on everything I could see. Everything looks in great shape...
4.) Dropped the car back down and by grabbing my strut tower brace I could duplicate the noise rocking the car side to side.

After eliminating everything I could, I replaced the sway bar end links.

When I removed them they had NO visible sign of torn or cracked boots or anything aesthetically that would say they were bad. When I pulled them off they were pretty easy to manipulate around. I installed the new end links and replicated the side to side test and it was completely gone. A quick test drive confirmed noise was gone, and off the to alignment shop I went.

I hope this helps!!!:High 5:

~EDIT~

New wheels came in... can't wait to get some new rubber... On a side note... anyone want to buy the stock silver bullitt rims?
 
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CobraRed

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Haha, I was telling people about those wheels on AM. They were on clearance for awhile for like thirty something dollars a piece.

The tires are not bad, maybe in the top 5 for the money at that treadwear. I just put two sets of those on my brother-in-law's 3 series and my sister's S5. A good all around summer tire. Contact DW, S-04 Pole Position Michilin Pilot Super Sport would all be better choices.

Also, why buy 10" wide wheels then buy 275's? 295's all the way around is where you're going to benefit from those wider wheels.
 

Norm Peterson

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The wider you push the tire size relative to the wheel width, the softer and less precise everything gets. Dynamically, the tire is really just another spring (OK, several springs in several different directions), and when you make it softer (laterally and yaw-wise here) that's what will happen. Ultimate grip and cornering response are two separate considerations, and cornering response is going to be the one you'll notice more in anything resembling normal driving. Even if you don't autocross.

My opinion, soft cornering response sucks, feels a lot like they're underinflated even when they're all good. 'Crisp' is nice, makes the car feel like it's smaller than it really is.

You should look also at the tires' tread widths. Some 265/40's have more rubber on the ground than lots of 275/40's, to the point where with MPSS in that size with its 10.2" tread, an 18x10 wheel is none to wide.


Norm
 
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CobraRed

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Well, that's true. Also sidewall stiffness works in the same fashion. I put 285's on my 19x9.5's but if I had used a DW instead of a S-04, i probably would have gone 275's - the S-04's side wall stiffness is ridiculous.
 

Norm Peterson

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I've been running 275's on 9", 285 on 9.5" and 295 on 10" since I was 15 :shrug:
All minimum recommended wheel fitments (what max tire for a given wheel width also means) . . . and the only way I'll ever run a min-recommended wheel width for whatever tire size is if that's the way the car comes when I buy it. Sure, it's a legitimate fitment, but for overall use it just leaves too much on the table unless you simply can't stretch the sidewalls out any further because of something like strut clearance.

The nutty tire and wheel combinations that you see in SCCA autocrossing aren't done because they're the absolute optimum way to go, it's really an unintended consequence of placing limits on wheel widths but not restricting tire widths/sizing. Not worth emulating on the street.


FWIW . . . at various times I have run 185/70's (and later 195/70's) on 13x7 wheels, 225/60's on 15x8.5 wheels, 205/50's on 15x7 wheels, 225/45's on 18x8 wheels, and the Mustang currently rides on 255/45's and 18x9.5 wheels (street) or 285/35's and 18x11 wheels for track time.


Norm
 

Vorshlag-Fair

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All minimum recommended wheel fitments (what max tire for a given wheel width also means) . . . and the only way I'll ever run a min-recommended wheel width for whatever tire size is if that's the way the car comes when I buy it. Sure, it's a legitimate fitment, but for overall use it just leaves too much on the table unless you simply can't stretch the sidewalls out any further because of something like strut clearance.

The nutty tire and wheel combinations that you see in SCCA autocrossing aren't done because they're the absolute optimum way to go, it's really an unintended consequence of placing limits on wheel widths but not restricting tire widths/sizing. Not worth emulating on the street.

Norm

Just wanted to add that Norm is 100% spot on here. Read his post, learn it, live it. :beer:

DSCN0230.jpg


The OEMs tend to "run wider tires on skinny wheels" for a number of reasons, but a big part of that is "typical idiots park too close and rub up against curbs". Its easier to fix a scuffed up tire (a serviceable part with a 5 year lifespan, at best) than a curb-rashed wheel (wheels could/should last the life of the vehicle). Many tires now come with "rim protectors", which are extended rub strips near the bead, that are sacrificial and protect the wheel lips. These "wide tires on skinny wheels" are not done for performance reasons.

DSC_2450-S.jpg
DSC_2444-S.jpg

On this AWD EVO X we ran in STU class, tire width was limited to 245mm but wheel width was not... so we used an 18x10" wheel

Racers know that when they have the choice (rules, budget, clearance), its almost always better to run a given sized tire at the "wider" end of the "recommended wheel width" spectrum than at the narrow end. Like if a class limits tire width but has unlimited wheel width, we stretch out the max tire width onto an even wider wheel a bit. Makes for great feel and feedback, uses ALL of the tire tread, and has few if any drawbacks. Of course the VIP crowd has taken this way too far and made the term "stretched" a dirty word.

DSC_7949-M.jpg


Of course if you can fit an uber-wide wheel and the rules don't limit tire width, it is often better still to run a tick more tire width than the "slight stretch" that is text book optimal. Like when we first went to wider wheels on our S197, it had an 18x11" front and 18x12" rear with a 315/30/18 tire (see above). The tire width was limited by the fender width, but the same tire on the wider wheel was sharper turn-in and wore better (the rears). The wheel widths were limited then by the factory fenders and inner structures/strut.

_DSC_8552-Mi.jpg


When we added front flares (or at the event above, just cut/clearanced the fenders - until the flares were completed a few weeks later) we quickly moved to wider 18x12's up front (to match the rear) but kept the same 315mm tire at both ends (the rear wasn't supposed to ever be touched, according to Amy, so 315 was the limit). The car GOT FASTER and the turn-in improved on the front tires - with nothing but a wheel width change at one end.

DSC_1014-M.jpg


When the opportunity to add rear flares came along (she was out of town!) we took it. This then allowed the same 18x12" wheels to work with much wider 335 (front) and 345 (rear) tires. The car dropped another 2-3 seconds a lap from the added tire width. BUT, the 345 was visibly squeezed onto that 12" wheel. Ideally the front wheel would have gone to 18x13" and the rear to 18x14"... but the wheel choices got hyper-expensive above 18x12", as you have to go monoblock or 3-piece to get wheels that wide. So we had a known compromise on tire-to-wheel width... due to cost and availability factors of the wheels (we always kept 2 sets of wheels around, to run scrubs in practices and/or in case a wheel or tire was damaged on the "race set"). Wheel costs literally tripled and in some brands quadrupled when going beyond 18x12".

Forgestar%20M14.2-M.jpg


Our next shop car is being built around the same tire package as we ran on the TT3 Mustang. But now we will have them on what I feel are the "correct" wheel sizes: The 335/30/18 will go on an 18x13 and the 345/35/18 will go on an 18x14 wheel. The newly offered M14.2 Forgestar 2-piece wheel (above) bridges the gap - in price and width - between 1-piece rotary forged wheels ($350-400/each) and super costly 3-piece or monoblock wheels ($900-1500+/each).

Just one example, but keep in mind the rule: if the tire manufacturer has a range of wheel widths, err on the side of the WIDEST one they offer, if it fits your class/budget/chassis restrictions. Supporting a tire with the proper wheel width is important for performance, feel, ultimate grip and tire wear.

Cheers,
 

1Free197

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^^^ this post... you always amaze me with the amount of info I get :popcorneat:

Haha, I was telling people about those wheels on AM. They were on clearance for awhile for like thirty something dollars a piece.

oh yea... trust me... what I paid shipped is absurdly cheap

I've been running 275's on 9", 285 on 9.5" and 295 on 10" since I was 15 :shrug:

I don't think these Evo 12's are his track tires.

I have 275's on my 18x10's currently and they are pretty spot on.

And for the first iteration I am using a good sticky street tire before running straight into comp spec tires. The driver mod needs to catch up to the tire mod if you catch my drift :beer:

All minimum recommended wheel fitments (what max tire for a given wheel width also means) . . . and the only way I'll ever run a min-recommended wheel width for whatever tire size is if that's the way the car comes when I buy it. Sure, it's a legitimate fitment, but for overall use it just leaves too much on the table unless you simply can't stretch the sidewalls out any further because of something like strut clearance.

The nutty tire and wheel combinations that you see in SCCA autocrossing aren't done because they're the absolute optimum way to go, it's really an unintended consequence of placing limits on wheel widths but not restricting tire widths/sizing. Not worth emulating on the street.


FWIW . . . at various times I have run 185/70's (and later 195/70's) on 13x7 wheels, 225/60's on 15x8.5 wheels, 205/50's on 15x7 wheels, 225/45's on 18x8 wheels, and the Mustang currently rides on 255/45's and 18x9.5 wheels (street) or 285/35's and 18x11 wheels for track time.


Norm

This is how I have been operating on tire sizes all my life. I won't use anything less than a factory spec most times, and only have ventured into wacky combo's when it came to keeping my old car in a specific class.
 

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