3650 wont engage

[TexasBlownV8]

Installed an iron-block 4.6, using whatever 'stock clutch' was on there, as it looked new and looked right. Bolted up a tr3650 to it, which was in the car and already worked before on a different engine. Used the thin metal spacer plate between the engine and transmission that was used on the previous engine.

When I release the clutch in any gear, there's a metallic tinking sound, and the transmission wont engage. There is a very slight reduction in engine rpms, so something is trying to engage a little bit.

Any suggestions? Seems like it is the wrong clutch or the transmission is too far away from the engine. Can I check anything through the bottom inspection hole that will help?

** How far out from the block should the clutch housing be at? ** (..the starter engages properly, by the way)

I know I'll have to drop the transmission to fix it, but what should I look for as far as pressure plate distance from the trans, clutch distance, etc?

..here's a pic of the clutch before engine was installed in the car...a part number is one it...hmm...

 

[FAST3V]

Wow. I haven't seen that charge motion motor in a LONG time. Everything there looks normal. You sure you have the trans shaft stabbed in? When the car is sitting there, and you move through the gears, does it feel normal?

 

[TexasBlownV8]

The gears feel normal; like i said, the trans was working before, and it felt the same from inside.
I like your comment about seeing if the trans shaft is stabbed into the pilot; I'll rotate it around and look up inside the hole, and see what I can.

I wonder if I didnt break something putting the engine in? (with trans still in the car).
It was binding on something for awhile, then 'popped' into place. Something could have broke I guess, or, just be wrong.

(..Leo, wanna help me pull it out ??!!!... actually, it may be out before anyone would be able to help.)

 

[gregsdart]

Are you saying it won't go INTO gear, or is it going into gear and not moving under power?
One thing to check is the throwout bearing to clutch disc fingers distance. You have to remove the trans, place a straight edge across the trans bellhousing, squeeze the TB all the way down, and measure that distance. Then on the motor do the same, measuring from the fingers to the surface of the engine block spacer. The distance needs to be .100 minimum to .250 max for the TB to be in range to self adjust. There is very little room for error on this system, as the TB only moves .430 max under perfect conditions (no air bubbles, spaced right, etc) Mcleod sells spacers that are .200 thick to go with thier clutches. Trust me, this measuremnet needs to be done. It only cost me $1,000 to find that out, and there was no instructions on measuring a Ford in the clutch install instructions.

 

[TexasBlownV8]

Are you saying it won't go INTO gear, or is it going into gear and not moving under power?
One thing to check is the throwout bearing to clutch disc fingers distance. You have to remove the trans, place a straight edge across the trans bellhousing, squeeze the TB all the way down, and measure that distance. Then on the motor do the same, measuring from the fingers to the surface of the engine block spacer. The distance needs to be .100 minimum to .250 max for the TB to be in range to self adjust. There is very little room for error on this system, as the TB only moves .430 max under perfect conditions (no air bubbles, spaced right, etc) Mcleod sells spacers that are .200 thick to go with thier clutches. Trust me, this measuremnet needs to be done. It only cost me $1,000 to find that out, and there was no instructions on measuring a Ford in the clutch install instructions.

Thank you
That's the kind of measurements I need! If something isn't broken, I'll make the measurements.
The car did have a mcleod clutch on it, with the spacer, but all that was removed and this is now a stock clutch, of some kind!

 

[lito]

If you have an older flywheel (2V) and a new 3V clutch, the flywheel inner section is smaller and the ribets touch the flywheel area, remember the issue with the McLeod RS/XT's that they don't bite completely because the center area was wider? this is the inverse case.

 

[TexasBlownV8]

Thanks, I'll check that out, too!

 

[lito]

If the McLeod you removed was a dual (dual use an smaller disc), check the bottom disc, FW side for wear, if there is no rise/untouched area toward the center, that is your issue right there.

Those discs against an stock 3V type FW will wear like this: http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1994964&postcount=1041

Many aftermarket and older flywheels have smaller centers with bigger surface and a 3V stock clutch won't work.

Symptoms are exactly like you describe, shift smooth, but when you release, metal to metal scracth (you would have already carved that flywheel).

 

[AutoXRacer]

My question would be, why are you using a pre-05 clutch on a 05-09 platform?

Are 2001-2004 clutches the same as 05-09?
The transmissions for the iron block 4.6L were not TR-3650s. I think they were T-56s.

 

[lito]

Guess what, older transmission were 3650s just not remote shifter as 05-10.

 

[W3bb3r04]

Mid 01-04 was a direct mounted Tr3650, T56 was only in the 03-04 Cobras. As long as the clutch mounts to the flywheel correctly it wouldnt matter. I believe they are 11"

 

[AutoXRacer]

So the clutch for a 01-04 is interchangeable with 05-09?

Didn't know that Lito!!

 

[lito]

Many are just the same clutch kit.

 

[TexasBlownV8]

the "4r33" in the part number would indicate "2005", right? Nevertheless, are these the right parts?

Anyway, got the transmission out, the flywheel and cover look good, no gouges or scars or burns.
But, not sure this clutch disc is normal, the cause of the problem, or what. The center plastic piece was popped up from on of the hold-down tabs being broken; I was able to push it down back in place.
What about those crack lines (white)? is that normal?

[Edit: in looking at other pics of other clutch discs online, in looks like that entire center section has been "punched though", moving the splines farther in and causing the cracks/breakage on the engine side...this makes sense, as the trans-side shows a little bit of metal contact had been made and has been moved in (forward) about 1/4"... guess I need a replacement clutch disc.]


notice the center section pushed in on transmission side:

and, engine side...this is busted I suppose:

 

[RED09GT]

I've seen that happen when the trans isn't properly supported and the ass end hangs down. Since the trans was already in the car, I'd say the input shaft got hung up during install or the alignment was a bit out pushing on the hub. Pretty easy to do with the weight of an engine.
I've wiped out the front pump of an automatic on install forcing it at the wrong time so I feel your pain.

awesome autocorrect malfunctions brought to you by tapatalk

 

[TexasBlownV8]

time to find a replacement.

 

[AnotherS197GT]

time to find a replacement.

$50 for a stock clutch

http://www.ebay.com/itm/05-06-07-08...Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a9123b72b&vxp=mtr

 

[AutoXRacer]

Why would you install an old clutch anyway...?

Its just a PITA to R&R a transmission...rule of thumb is to always install new components when the transmission is R&Red: new throwout bearing/slave, new input bearing, and new clutch assembly with refreshed flywheel. The cost of these parts are minor, especially if using stock parts.

But that clutch disc is definitely useless.

 

[TexasBlownV8]

Just an update: obtained a replacement clutch disc from newtakeoff.com. I put it in properly, using the alignment tool to hold it into place until the pressure plate was bolted down (which I don't think was done in the previous installation, which was not by me).

Everything went back together properly and smoothly. Got it all back together this weekend, bled the clutch today (pumping it slowly about 150 times as it firmed up), and now, it works very nicely as it should for a new clutch.

Engine runs good, as it should, and pulls like a stock GT. Now to put the car up for sale. (no, it is not the one in my sig, nor the black v6 turbo.)

 

[RED09GT]

So, was it the clutch disc?

awesome autocorrect malfunctions brought to you by tapatalk