Big Bore Boss build

[Backroad_Beast]

Definitely. I only do the Friday night test and tunes. I'm not a serious drag racer and the Friday night atmosphere at Bremerton is fairly relaxed. There was a good group of people that hung out there a few years ago. Then stangnation (the local forum) kind of blew up and people stopped doing so much stuff together. About the only time I get to see the folks I used to do activities with is during dyno days. It would be nice if we could get another Friday night group and cars and coffee group going again.

I'd be down to meet up at Bremerton too. I love that track. If you ever feel like making the drive south there's a bunch of us from SS and LSXNation that meet at Sonic in Puyallup every dry Friday around 8:30pm. And speaking of dyno days, they're having one next Saturday the 5th at TMS, come hang out.

 

[daveyboy]

I'd be down to meet up at Bremerton too. I love that track. If you ever feel like making the drive south there's a bunch of us from SS and LSXNation that meet at Sonic in Puyallup every dry Friday around 8:30pm. And speaking of dyno days, they're having one next Saturday the 5th at TMS, come hang out.

What does the dyno run on the dyno day?

 

[daveyboy]

Some more from today. During the timing component install it was discovered that there are only drilled bosses where pin studs go. The solution will be roll pins that have been tapped to 6mm/1. The pins are a little too large for the drilled boss holes so I'll turn them down tomorrow. Haven't had a metal lathe for quite awhile so these will be chucked into a drill press and filed.

If anyone has a better solution I'd like to hear it. A straight dowel won't work.

Edit: Maybe I can put threads on the outside of the roll pins and tap the boss holes? I think I'll go that route instead.



Where the pins go:





Once this is taken care of I'll try degreeing the cams. It still looks somewhat complicated and I'm not looking forward to it.

maybe I missed it but remind me what dish pistons did you use to get 12:1 compression?


EDIT: went back and re read. diamond flat top pistons...Do they have any valve reliefs. I am assuming the block was decked so the pistons were level at tdc with the block.

 

[Dark_horse]

Did you not get the dowels with the block for this?

 

[Backroad_Beast]

What does the dyno run on the dyno day?

$60 for 2 pulls with AF/R IIRC. I think it starts at 9, and goes til the last car dynos. These are usually a lot of fun whether you run or not. They throw out a BBQ for everybody to use and we all just hang out all day. My car's not running right now so I'm gonna dyno my old 91 F150 300 I6 for shits and giggles lol.

 

[BruceH]

Did you not get the dowels with the block for this?

Winner winner chicken dinner! Just checked the bag of parts and they are there. I was using the parts that came with the 3v timing kit.

Thank you.

 

[lethe]

That will save you a little time now.

 

[daveyboy]

$60 for 2 pulls with AF/R IIRC. I think it starts at 9, and goes til the last car dynos. These are usually a lot of fun whether you run or not. They throw out a BBQ for everybody to use and we all just hang out all day. My car's not running right now so I'm gonna dyno my old 91 F150 300 I6 for shits and giggles lol.

I might dyno to see where I am at before the next round of mods this winter

 

[BruceH]

I now understand the process of degreeing cams. Find tdc, zero the dial, find intake centerline. I think there is more than one way to do it. Right now I'm trying to measure the intake lobe 180 degrees out. The dial indicator is measuring the intake lobe when it's up and accessible instead of measuring the valve coming up. I can't see why this method won't work.

So far something keeps getting in the way of good measurements. One time the chain was off by a couple of teeth and a few other times the wheel either moved or wouldn't adjust. It's going to be pretty hard for me to trust my readings right now as it doesn't take much to skew the indication.

The process itself is a lot simpler than it's described or maybe I should say easier than the way I'm reading it to be. I'm very tempted to just put the rest of the motor together and call it good.

Edit:

Here's the FRPP oil pan, pickup, and windage tray/gasket setup. I can't see why it wouldn't fit since it fits the 07-09 GT500.



Hover over image to zoom
click to enlarge



5.4L/5.8L 4V MODULAR HIGH CAPACITY OIL PAN
M-6675-MSVT
tech notes

• Fits: 2007-2012 5.4L Shelby GT500 and 2013 5.8L Shelby GT500
• Original equipment on 2013 Mustang Shelby GT500
• Cast aluminum construction with 8.5 quart capacity
• Includes combination oil pan gasket, windage tray and scraper
• Includes pick-up tube and pan bolts.

 

[lethe]

I've never fully understood how to degree cams, but then again i haven't actually tried either.

That windage tray/oil pan gasket is pretty slick.

 

[05stroker]

I've never fully understood how to degree cams, but then again i haven't actually tried either.

That windage tray/oil pan gasket is pretty slick.

I did it once, my current cams are installed strait up...

 

[daveyboy]

I now understand the process of degreeing cams. Find tdc, zero the dial, find intake centerline. I think there is more than one way to do it. Right now I'm trying to measure the intake lobe 180 degrees out. The dial indicator is measuring the intake lobe when it's up and accessible instead of measuring the valve coming up. I can't see why this method won't work.

So far something keeps getting in the way of good measurements. One time the chain was off by a couple of teeth and a few other times the wheel either moved or wouldn't adjust. It's going to be pretty hard for me to trust my readings right now as it doesn't take much to skew the indication.

The process itself is a lot simpler than it's described or maybe I should say easier than the way I'm reading it to be. I'm very tempted to just put the rest of the motor together and call it good.

Edit:

Here's the FRPP oil pan, pickup, and windage tray/gasket setup. I can't see why it wouldn't fit since it fits the 07-09 GT500.



Hover over image to zoom
click to enlarge



5.4L/5.8L 4V MODULAR HIGH CAPACITY OIL PAN
M-6675-MSVT
tech notes

• Fits: 2007-2012 5.4L Shelby GT500 and 2013 5.8L Shelby GT500
• Original equipment on 2013 Mustang Shelby GT500
• Cast aluminum construction with 8.5 quart capacity
• Includes combination oil pan gasket, windage tray and scraper
• Includes pick-up tube and pan bolts.

Any Idea if that pan works on the 4.6?

 

[BruceH]

So the driver side was coming in between 106 and 108. Intake center line is listed as 108. This process is hard for me to determine an exact reading. The wheel can move small amounts and the way I'm doing it by measuring the cam lobe 180 out of phase has a fairly large dead area with these cams, ie they hold the intake open for awhile.

I got all set up for the passenger side but the tdc readings were wandering when I double checked and then I could spin the motor all the way around. It should stop when the piston hits the stop. What happened was the stop that's welded on to an old spark plug broke off. I tried fishing it out for about 30 minutes with a magnet. Finally said a little prayer and the magnet caught it in the manner needed to pull it out of the hole.

I'll probably thread the spark plug part for a bolt and try it over tomorrow. It will be awhile before the new oil pan package shows up anyway so I have the time.

Any Idea if that pan works on the 4.6?

I'll know in a few days. The idea came from another forum member who used the windage tray on a 4.6. I can't see any reason why it wouldn't work but you never know. At the very least I can used the windage tray and resell the pickup tube and pan to a GT500 owner.

I'm pretty sure the 5.4 and 4.6 use the same oil pan gasket so all the rest should fit. I'm not too crazy about an 8.5 quart oil capacity but since I'm na I'll probably stretch the oil change intervals out. Or I'll just use my 4.6 pan. Don't know yet.

 

[daveyboy]

I'll know in a few days. The idea came from another forum member who used the windage tray on a 4.6. I can't see any reason why it wouldn't work but you never know. At the very least I can used the windage tray and resell the pickup tube and pan to a GT500 owner.

I'm pretty sure the 5.4 and 4.6 use the same oil pan gasket so all the rest should fit. I'm not too crazy about an 8.5 quart oil capacity but since I'm na I'll probably stretch the oil change intervals out. Or I'll just use my 4.6 pan. Don't know yet.

I will look forward to the results. It has been my exsperience that long stroke motors like having a windage tray and a scraper

 

[BruceH]

Getting closer. It looks like a motor now. The oil pan package is supposed to be here on Friday so maybe the motor will go in this weekend.

I took one last pic prior to putting the front cover on just in case I had doubts about doing something later.



It was fighting me some more today so this is as far as it got. If I'm thinking right all that's left is the oil filter adapter, valve covers, oil pan, clutch and flywheel.

 

[daveyboy]

Did you end up scrapping the Idea of degreeing the cams?

 

[BruceH]

Did you end up scrapping the Idea of degreeing the cams?

Kind of. I was able to find tdc easy enough. I ended up just making sure they were close. The readings weren't repeatable enough for me to trust them. I know that both cams are within 2 degrees, probably closer. I know that the cam card is for these cams.

The cams were installed locked out and straight up. Straight up is the same as 127500 with 113 lsa and 6 degrees of retard. This compares very closely to where I found the best airflow with my 127400 cams and vct. The longer duration of these cams makes it possible to cover the best valve open and close while being locked out. They should work well. I'm wondering how much difference the 1 extra degree of lsa will make. Probably not much, maybe just tone down the lope a little.

 

[daveyboy]

IIRC the wider LSA the wider the power band. 1 degree probably will not make that big of diffrence. You had a custom ground cam right?

 

[BruceH]

IIRC the wider LSA the wider the power band. 1 degree probably will not make that big of diffrence. You had a custom ground cam right?

I bought them already ground. They fit my needs very well and were less than half of what they would of been new.

I got it all buttoned up today and realized I had forgotten the reluctor.

Gooped the cams up with Comp branded marshmallow fluff.



Buttoned it up.



Realized that the reluctor wheel wasn't installed and took it all back apart. This time I put the part on, lol.



Upon disassembly it was discovered that there was a different mismatch with this block than with the 1L block I had previously used. All I could do is build up the area with rtv. It should work. I did a similar fix with the 1L block but in a different area and it worked.

It's a lot easier to take this stuff apart now vs when it's in the car so forgetting the reluctor wheel was a good thing. It took just about an hour to take everything apart and put it back together. For some reason I used an arp crank bolt on this build. It's already paid for itself with this disassembly.







I'll update my thread on the front cover leak with this new info.

The new oil pan package is supposed to be here on Friday. Hopefully the motor will be completely buttoned up Friday night and the motor will go in on Saturday. If UPS delivers early on Friday I may try to put the motor in Friday night. Sometimes they go right in and sometimes it takes awhile but once you start you are committed so I won't try it too late in the evening Friday.

 

[lethe]

Looking good. Like you said it's a good thing you realized you had forgot the reluctor wheel now instead of after the motor was in. At least you didn't forget to pull the retaining clips off like i did haha. I got lucky that it hit me for some reason when i was installing the followers. I get a little forgetful when i've been wrenching for 13+ hours straight.