Brakes or shocks/struts

[kwadkins]

I have an extra 1500 left in my build. Would you guys buy the brembo front break kit and just put BMR springs on stock struts/springs. Or leave stock breaks and do koni yellow and springs? It's a street driven weekend car.

 

[JerryZ]

You can do the yellows & springs with plenty $ left over. I have Yellows w/BMR Handling springs-they are awesome. I'd say that's the best bang for the buck.

 

[csamsh]

If you're tracking the car, do the brakes.

OR do this.

http://www.vorshlag.com/product_info.php?cPath=141_142_179&products_id=559

 

[oldVOR]

I put the Vorshlag street pros on my son's '05 and it was night and day difference over the stock suspension. A well setup and balanced kit right out of the box.

 

[kcbrown]

I have an extra 1500 left in my build. Would you guys buy the brembo front break kit and just put BMR springs on stock struts/springs. Or leave stock breaks and do koni yellow and springs? It's a street driven weekend car.

If the purpose is to take the car to the track (driving events), then do the brakes, period. Safety first. The stock suspension may move around a lot, and may not be the most composed on the track, but you can still learn a lot from it, while brakes have to Just Work No Matter What.


If it's just street driven and won't see a track, but might see autocross courses, then do springs and shocks. You'll get varying opinions about what springs and shocks to switch to. It'll ultimately depend on what you're after out of it.

Are you interested in switching primarily for looks? For handling? For ride quality (the stock dampers I had sucked for ride quality, but mine had the Brembo dampers)?

If you're after autocross, then a couple of hundred over your stated budget gets you into Ground Control coilovers, which is a setup that has worked well for some people (e.g., Whiskey11) and gets you a lot of adjustability. If not, then coilovers will almost certainly be overkill, and you'll be better off with something like Vorshlag's Bilstein setup. And finally, as long as you stick with springs that do not lower you too much (I'd say an inch at most), Koni Yellow dampers are not a bad way to go at all, and have the advantage of being adjustable. If adjustability isn't a requirement and you stick with springs that don't lower the car much (an inch at most), then even Koni STR.T dampers might be an option, and they are much less expensive than anything else (and carry the same lifetime warranty that the Koni and Bilsteins do). But I wouldn't go with the STR.T dampers if I were doing autocross.

So: confused yet? I would be!

If you give us an idea of what you're really after, we can more properly advise you.

 

[kwadkins]

Well the car will most likely see one HPDE per year in Indiana. Maybe some auto cross. Mainly the car will be a street car. I blew the stock motor and currently building it and will have a single turbo on it. Currently suspension mods are BMR upper and lowers, relocation brackets, Panhard bar, and front and rear sway bars. Thanks for all the advise.

 

[kcbrown]

Well the car will most likely see one HPDE per year in Indiana. Maybe some auto cross. Mainly the car will be a street car. I blew the stock motor and currently building it and will have a single turbo on it. Currently suspension mods are BMR upper and lowers, relocation brackets, Panhard bar, and front and rear sway bars. Thanks for all the advise.

Hmm....OK. What year is your car? I don't see mention of that.

How experienced an HPDE driver are you? One event per year isn't really enough to gain a lot of experience (and, thus, speed on the track). If you're relatively new at it (or a rank beginner, for that matter) then your brakes will probably do fine as long as you use the right pads and fluid. But once you get faster, your brakes won't hold up. And if you're already experienced, then your brakes definitely won't hold up.

Moreover, since you're putting a turbo on the car, your car will probably have cooling issues on the track unless you take engine cooling very seriously. The stock Coyote motor already runs rather warm oil temps even with the Boss oil cooler (yes, yes, some might joke that it's an oil "heater", but 20K BTUs worth of oil cooling at idle is nothing to sneeze at).

So, based on the above, I'd have to recommend putting the money into springs and dampers. Since it's mainly going to be a daily driver, the next logical question is: how much do you want to lower it relative to stock? If it's by more than about an inch, then you'll want to stay away from the Koni dampers, which would make either Bilsteins or coilovers your only real options in that case.

If you're lowering an inch or less, then which dampers are on the table depends on the spring rates you choose. The STR.T dampers, inexpensive as they may be, are almost certainly going to be a poor choice if your spring rates are at the higher end of the range (250 lb/in or so up front, I'd guess), while the Koni Yellows can be adjusted to account for the spring rate. The Bilsteins that Vorshlag sells are already intended for midrange rates, so despite the fact that they're not adjustable, they'll work well.

For daily driving, I simply can't say whether the Konis will prove more comfortable than the Bilsteins or vice versa. The Bilsteins add a substantial amount of spring rate on their own because of the high-pressure nitrogen charge, while the Konis don't, but the damping in the Bilsteins might be better for comfort (discussions on various forums don't result in a clear picture on that front). Both brands have their supporters. The Konis are adjustable in rebound, so they may well prove more comfortable when dialed back than the Bilsteins. I have the Koni Yellows myself, and can tell you that their damping is worlds better than that of the stock dampers, so they will certainly not be a bad choice at all as long as you don't lower the car more than about an inch.


Until/unless you get very serious about competing, I honestly don't expect there will be much of a difference between the various damper choices presented above, as long as you stay within the limitations of the damper (for the STR.T, that means relatively low spring rates, something like 250 lb/in or less up front is my guess, and an inch or less of lowering. For the Koni Yellows, it'll damp anything less than about 425 lb/in up front, and again the amount you lower has to be about an inch or less. The Bilsteins will properly damp any of the springs you can select on Vorshlag's site for the product, and there's no real limit on lowering, but they'll eat your entire budget. Then again, Vorshlag's Bilstein kit gets you everything: dampers, springs, and camber plates. And their service is excellent.


So in the end, I think it's going to depend on how much you want to lower the car. An inch or less, and I'd go with the Koni Yellows if I were thinking I might ever conceivably do some serious autocrossing and/or HPDE (because of the flexibility that being able to adjust the rebound affords), or the STR.Ts if I weren't (and use the money saved for something else). More than an inch, and it would be the Vorshlag Bilstein kit for sure.

 

[CARiD]

I certainly vote for suspension upgrade kit, because I don't think you will use the full potential of a hardcore performance brake kit on a street car, and you will still have to invest in suspension afterwards to achieve better handling. $1500 is enough even for a set of height adjustable coilover kit like Eibach pro-street or ST suspensions coilovers kit.

 

[Norm Peterson]

For $1500 you should be able to do Koni yellows, springs (subject to limitations on lowering, and a full set of Carbotech's entry- to mid-level track pads (XP-series). Adding four new stock-size rotors to that would likely exceed your stated budget, but not by too much.

I'm assuming that as a dual-purpose car it's going to be running on true street tires rather than R-comps, and probably not on the top two or three Stock-Category autocross tires either. Basically, that'll limit what you actually need because you won't be generating the kind of forces/accelerations that require more serious hardware.

That's basically been my (reasonably successful) experience to date with a true dual-purpose DD/track day '08 GT. But I have no idea what year car you have, or how extensive of a build you're doing.


Norm

 

[kwadkins]

Well a little back story on the car it is a 2008 that had a Paxton blower on it with the old motor. I used to drag race the car a lot. However now I would like to try my hand at a few HPDE events just for fun and the rush of driving my car I have been looking at the BMR handling springs paired with yellows. I believe the spring rate is 240 up front. Would this be to much for daily driving? Also would GT500 strut mounts be enough to fix any camber issues with those springs or legit caster/camber plates? Thanks for the help guys. The information on suspension is very helpful for someone new to not only driving in a straight line like me

 

[Boone]

For $2K, you can pick up a MM Sport Box. I have it on my car, and I must say it is an excellent compromise package. Not true track... still very tame on the street. All the "ugly" performance characteristics (brake dive, excessive roll, slop) typical of S197 cars go away. Non-adjustable H&R coilovers keep it simple, but they work well.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Well a little back story on the car it is a 2008 that had a Paxton blower on it with the old motor. I used to drag race the car a lot. However now I would like to try my hand at a few HPDE events just for fun and the rush of driving my car I have been looking at the BMR handling springs paired with yellows. I believe the spring rate is 240 up front. Would this be to much for daily driving? Also would GT500 strut mounts be enough to fix any camber issues with those springs or legit caster/camber plates? Thanks for the help guys. The information on suspension is very helpful for someone new to not only driving in a straight line like me

GT500 strut mounts are not adjustable for camber. But between caster-camber plates and non-adjustable strut mounts there is Steeda's HD strut mounts that better tolerate lowering and also provide a degree or so of camber adjustability (which you may or may not "outgrow" with time and experience on the track).

I wouldn't be the least bit afraid of driving 240/200 springs on a street-driven '08 GT (I'm considering these specific springs myself). I put about that much spring on a car that's 700 lbs or so lighter than that and drove it everywhere. Granddaughter now drives it, with no complaints whatsoever.


Norm

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

I have an extra 1500 left in my build. Would you guys buy the brembo front break kit and just put BMR springs on stock struts/springs. Or leave stock breaks and do koni yellow and springs? It's a street driven weekend car.

I may be biased but for $1499 you cannot beat the quality, performance or price of this StreetPro kit we sell.

http://www.vorshlag.com/product_info.php?cPath=141_142_179&products_id=559

If or when you start doing HPDE track events, then look at the brakes. If you don't already have the 14" Brembos then this is a good $1100 spent: link

 

[Apex50]

For $1500, I'd sign up for 3x HPDEs, wouldn't bother with suspension or brakes until you get more seat time


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[csamsh]

Unless of course you smash into a wall because you lost your DOT3 brake fluid or cord your tires because you have .6 deg of camber.

lol. I kid. Mostly.

 

[kwadkins]

I really like the vorshlag kit. How does that compare to a similar priced coilover kit such as the eibach street kit?

 

[kwadkins]

Also I know I couldn't out drive my current suspension. But the "get more seat time" comments don't help me spend 1500 bucks on suspension mods

 

[Norm Peterson]

But I bet you can already outdrive the OE alignment that it's sitting at. Especially since on OE springs and bars, with less-than-out-of-the-box OE damping, your car is going to be moving around on its suspension more.

I drove my first track day ever with name-brand aftermarket pads that are optimistically described as "performance street" ("street performance" is closer to the truth - and even that feels like an overstatement). Anyway, it was a very, very careful day. And only that one time. Your confidence in your car takes a big step up (and lap times drop by whole seconds as a result) when the brakes bite like "RIGHT NOW" when you step on the 'whoa' pedal and you know that they're still going to be that good out past 1200°F and your fluid is good for at least 50° more than OE Ford (which isn't exactly terrible stuff given that it's only DOT3).

I'm still on the same 12.4" & 11.8" stock rotors, but haven't yet overdriven them. I have moved from XP8/XP8 to XP10/XP10 and finally to XP12/XP10 though. My own criteria for upgrading to 14" SVT/GT500 front brakes was going to be if/when I found I needed more than XP12's up front. But I might just do that the next time anyway.


Norm

 

[2Fass240us]

I'm still on the same 12.4" & 11.8" stock rotors, but haven't yet overdriven them.

That's because you haven't gone fla_tout.

In the words of Carroll Smith, "...sliding caliper, which I consider to be a crime against nature."

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

I really like the vorshlag kit. How does that compare to a similar priced coilover kit such as the eibach street kit?

I will point out some differences:

Vorshlag/Bilstein $1499 suspension kit (2005-14 Mustang GT / V6 / Boss / GT500)
PROS -

• Includes German built, extremely durable, high quality monotube inverted struts and shocks
• Includes your choice of lowering spring from Ford Racing
• Includes American made, extremely durable, high quality adjustable camber caster plates with sealed radial bearings and spherical bearings
• Includes new Bilstein rear shock mounts

CONS -

• Not height adjustable, but does lower the car 1-1.5" properly (shortened struts/shocks)
• No adjustable damping
• Limited to the OEM style lowering spring rates, which are 0-50% stiffer than stock

Eibach $1849 Multi-Pro R1 Coil Over Kit (11-14 GT, V6)
PROS -

• Adjustable Ride Height at all four corners
• Shock valving is Single Adjustable - Rebound & Compression tied to one knob
• Includes coilover springs of unknown/unstated rate
• Can lower the car so much your bros will be jealous
• Comes with a non-adjustable front top mount
• You can buy them from AM, TireRack, eBay, and damned near anywhere. Really cheap and they look chrome!

CONS -

• Comes with a non-camber-adjustable front top mount - what's the point?
• Shock valving is Single Adjustable - Rebound & Compression tied to one knob, which is less than helpful for track use.
• Unreliability is the single most glaring factor with their shocks. Users often see dramatic shock failure within "ones of months". We have talked to dozens upon dozens of buyers who were extremely disappointed in their longevity
• Costs almost as much to fix as replace (unless you have your own free shock rebuild service)
• This kit has rendered the phrase "Made in USA" a very dubious claim. Weird machining processes and thread pitches are used that were previously only seen in Chinese made shocks.
• Low quality Chrome plating on the shafts (which would impact longevity if they didn't fail spectacularly so soon)

Some of the things I'm stating about Eibach are less than flattering, but that's the truth as I see it over many years of observation. At this price, they really are "too good to be true" - $1850 for a reliable, USA built, adjustable coilover kit? That is just not possible. In this case, as in so many others, you do "get what you pay for".

I'm a dealer for Eibach and have been for years, but I won't touch these. We studied these Eibach coilover offerings closely when they were released and have looked at damaged units many times since. We still question the "Made in USA" claims with increasing skepticism. Again, some of the features are so unusual that they simply cannot be machined or plated in the USA or Europe. Maybe "reboxed in the USA" or "assembled" here? I've heard rumors about where these are really built but without confirmation I will not share that, just what I can see. I refuse to sell these shocks - I don't care how much margin I can make on them. As with many parts, I'd rather not make money selling something that I don't have any faith in, or wouldn't use myself. I also won't sell obviously Chinese built shocks, bolt-on doo-dads that do nothing but lighten your wallet, or other unreliable parts that are known to fail quickly.

Take this advise as from either a "bitter competitor" or from an Eibach dealer who could sell these but chooses not to. There are few if any here who have had Eibach coilovers more than 12 months without failures. I'm sure those handful of folks they will chime in. Just know that for every one positive experience there are a dozen or more negative experiences with these, long term.

I really dislike writing negative reviews about brands or parts I won't sell, but we just see so many people choosing these because they are cheap, then hear how bitterly disappointed they were when they inevitably fail. I'm trying to keep people from making a costly mistake more than I am trying to sell our parts, honestly.

edit: I just noticed that kwadkins asked about the Eibach "street" kit (aka: Pro-Street), which is even cheaper at $1364. That kit is essentially the same as the Multi-Pro-R1 Eibachs but without adjustable damping and does not include the fixed front strut mount. So... adjustable height only, with all of the same reliability issues.

Cheers,